Ryzom

oldmess wrote:I *do* work in the software industry. Yes, I'd prefer to put out proper fixes everytime, but sometimes when the customer is yelling and screaming (like we've been about false declarations), you do something short term to mitigate the problem. I'm not in the game industry, but I get bug reports sometimes where the right fix is month's work, but a quick work-around patch is a day or 2 and the customer is hopping mad. What should I do? Risk losing a lucrative support contract by making him wait? No. I quick patch him and then work behind the scenes on the better solution.

Life isn't black and white.

1) There has been more 'kicking and screaming' for other content than the small amount of people whining about their PvP 'fun' being spoiled. I don't see any 'quick fixes' for those. Requests for anything non-PvP are, on the whole, just ignored. Or they come up with an 'RP' solution. Take the call for non-PvP content in EP2. Did they patch anything in? No, they just came up with the lame 'fight for both sides' excuse.

2) This patch doesn't really 'fix' any of it. A measly 16 Million? 50 would have been better. As already stated, and agreed by you, the not being able to cancel change fixes nothing. The attacking guild just kicks anyone who tries to force the change of ownership by attacking.

3) IMHO this patch is simply Nevrax's attempt to force more conflict on us. The players that have employed this 'exploit' have found a way to get around Nevrax's attempts to force PvP down our throats. However, Nevrax don't seem to want 'peaceful' solutions. They want to force us to fight. All the non-cancellation change does is force the possiblity of a fight.

4) You might be happy to bodge stuff, I prefer a proper fix.

philu wrote:4) You might be happy to bodge stuff, I prefer a proper fix.

If I understand you correctly, you think that someone should control a resource without others who may not have a resource having the ability to take it ? Where is the fairness in your stance ?

vguerin wrote:If I understand you correctly, you think that someone should control a resource without others who may not have a resource having the ability to take it ? Where is the fairness in your stance ?

I don't have a stance like that. Please point me to the part of my post that even talks about that. Please don't put words in my mouth because you know full well I did not say any such thing.

What I said was that this patch doesn't properly fix the issue that the pro-PvP lobby have been complaining about. It's just a bodge that they have rushed in without properly thinking it through. It can still be 'exploited'.

If we're talking about fairness, where's the fairness in forcing 'pacifists' to fight? Where's the fairness in introducing content for only one part of the player base? Is it fair that my guild (who HAVEN'T used false declarations BTW) can't own an outpost without having to engage in PvP?

You have a right to engage in PvP (I'm assuming from your comments that you are pro-PvP - apologies if I am wrong). I have a right to not be bothered by it and at the moment I don't feel I am being allowed that right by Nevrax. That's my "stance".

Wow. You read a lot more into my words than I meant. You took a simple statement about time to develop fixes and made it into a full-on anti-pvp rant. At least you're persistent.

philu wrote:1) There has been more 'kicking and screaming' for other content than the small amount of people whining about their PvP 'fun' being spoiled. I don't see any 'quick fixes' for those.

I never said that everything someone complains about is going to get a quick fix. In my own work, sometimes you just have to tell a customer it will take a month. Other times, the situation allows you to fix it quickly and sometimes you can give him a quick workaround and a better solution long term.

Sometimes I tell a customer I'm not going to change the thing he doesn't like because that's not what my product is intended to do. Either or both reasons may explain why you didn't get the "fix" you wanted.

2) This patch doesn't really 'fix' any of it. A measly 16 Million? 50 would have been better. As already stated, and agreed by you, the not being able to cancel change fixes nothing. The attacking guild just kicks anyone who tries to force the change of ownership by attacking.

The 16 mil does make it better even if it doesn't "fix" it completely. Yeah, my guild can afford to waste 16 mil a few times. But not forever. IMO, some false declarations may have good reason; i.e. blocking attacks during the holidays so you can enjoy your eggnog and then freeing it back up after that. Making it completely impossible isn't necessary.

3) IMHO this patch is simply Nevrax's attempt to force more conflict on us.

Here it is. Grats on ya for finding a way to turn this discussion around to your favorite topic: All PvP is bad and Nevrax wants to force us to PvP. I disagree with ya in this case, but that's ok. We're allowed to disagree.

4) You might be happy to bodge stuff, I prefer a proper fix.

Please don't read more into what I said than I meant. I'm not "happy" to give a customer an imperfect workaround to a bug, but it's often better to do that if I can do it quickly rather than make him wait too long. I buy myself breathing room to work out a better solution that way. Well, with most customers I do. With some, they're never happy. *shrug*

oldmess wrote:Wow. You read a lot more into my words than I meant.

Ok well I'll accept your more detailed explanation and not read more into that.

oldmess wrote: The 16 mil does make it better even if it doesn't "fix" it completely. Yeah, my guild can afford to waste 16 mil a few times. But not forever. IMO, some false declarations may have good reason; i.e. blocking attacks during the holidays so you can enjoy your eggnog and then freeing it back up after that. Making it completely impossible isn't necessary.

That's not what the majority of people who have complained about the exploit have said though is it? I agree with you that it does have it's place 'at the right time' such as christmas day.

oldmess wrote: Here it is. Grats on ya for finding a way to turn this discussion around to your favorite topic: All PvP is bad and Nevrax wants to force us to PvP. I disagree with ya in this case, but that's ok. We're allowed to disagree.

Well since this is a feedback thread on the latest patch and that patch is mainly to fix a PvP issue, I haven't turned this discusion in any other direction. It's all about PvP IMHO. I have no problem with you disagreeing with me. I welcome a discussion on the subject but I would like to hear WHY you disagree, not just that you do.

oldmess wrote: Please don't read more into what I said than I meant. I'm not "happy" to give a customer an imperfect workaround to a bug, but it's often better to do that if I can do it quickly rather than make him wait too long. I buy myself breathing room to work out a better solution that way. Well, with most customers I do. With some, they're never happy. *shrug*

OK apologies for that, but I agree some are never happy. Way of the world I guess. Me I'd be happy with a little more non-PvP content.

You see my problem with it is simple. Ouposts are not what was originally promised. I, like others, can remember information from Nevrax that mentioned being able to own an Outpost through diplomatic means not conflict. We also remember talk of Outposts giving much more than they do, more content to them. I looked for but couldn't find the original article

By the time my current subscription has run out, I will have invested nearly 2 years of my life into this game. I invested time during Beta to help Nevrax develop David Cohen's 'dream', a game that I currently feel is drifting away from that dream toward a WoW clone.

If anyone thinks that the time invested and the love I have for the game doesn't give me the right to express my opinion about this then I will shut up.

I am not saying you do think that (but I'd like to hear from anyone who does, with a valid reason). I have expressed my opinion and now I'm going to give it a rest (for a while till they introdiuce more PvP ) before I become a troll.

philu wrote:OK apologies for that, but I agree some are never happy. Way of the world I guess. Me I'd be happy with a little more non-PvP content.

You see my problem with it is simple. Ouposts are not what was originally promised. I, like others, can remember information from Nevrax that mentioned being able to own an Outpost through diplomatic means not conflict. We also remember talk of Outposts giving much more than they do, more content to them. I looked for but couldn't find the original article

By the time my current subscription has run out, I will have invested nearly 2 years of my life into this game. I invested time during Beta to help Nevrax develop David Cohen's 'dream', a game that I currently feel is drifting away from that dream toward a WoW clone.

If anyone thinks that the time invested and the love I have for the game doesn't give me the right to express my opinion about this then I will shut up.

I am not saying you do think that (but I'd like to hear from anyone who does, with a valid reason). I have expressed my opinion and now I'm going to give it a rest (for a while till they introdiuce more PvP ) before I become a troll.

Dude... I share you view on all of this pretty much, but my glass is half-full.

Been here awhile, this aint the game we tested in hopes of being a part of fulfilling DDC's vision... but it don't suck. You can hope that the diplomatic option we were told to expect is employed while I wait on level caps to change and new lands to open. Just don't be a downer all the time.

Half-Full

philu wrote:I have no problem with you disagreeing with me. I welcome a discussion on the subject but I would like to hear WHY you disagree, not just that you do.

I stated my opinion on PvP in another thread recently so I don't want to get into it in too much detail. But basically, I personally dislike open PvP, but have found myself enjoying this more structured form of it. The one seems to encourage immature behavior more than the other.

I understand that you're frustrated that the main new content im months is PvP oriented. I personally missed the last invasion by days (I started last January), so I don't even have memories of that. Maybe this latest Kitin Queen thing will be worthwhile; I don't know yet.

At this point, I'm just trying to live within this new world I find myself and find a way to be happy. Because if I login every day and just get mad about it, I'm going to find someplace else to go. But so far, I've found fun in some parts of Chapter 3,

You see my problem with it is simple. Ouposts are not what was originally promised. I, like others, can remember information from Nevrax that mentioned being able to own an Outpost through diplomatic means not conflict. We also remember talk of Outposts giving much more than they do, more content to them. I looked for but couldn't find the original article

I hope, but don't know for sure, that more features for Outposts are planned. At least something else to fill those empty construction sites.

Well guys I'd like to thank you both for 2 positive posts. Those 2 more than anything I've read recently on the forums have restored some of my faith in this community.

OudKnoei I hope you enjoy the invasion, they can be fun and should be where our real efforts lie - fighting the Kitin.

I too hope that there's more content for the OPs, something to build would be nice.

I agree with you DT that this game doesn't suck, it's still a beautiful game with great people. That's why I still play! I just hope they give us something other than PvP to make it even better.

*drinks double-taps glass*... oops.. now its completly empty!

*scurries off*



waht i'm trying to say is - relax ppl! the glass is half-full maybe because we're too lazy to fill it all the way up - sure we didnt get wat was promised during Beta - but NO ONE said itd all be here in only 1.5 years.. this game IS supposed to take about wat.. 7-8 years to complete? just lay back and relax a bit!

*offers everyone rounds of half-full glasses of Oflovak's special Brew to calm ppl down* Cheers all!

kuroari wrote:*drinks double-taps glass*... oops.. now its completly empty!

*scurries off*



waht i'm trying to say is - relax ppl! the glass is half-full maybe because we're too lazy to fill it all the way up - sure we didnt get wat was promised during Beta - but NO ONE said itd all be here in only 1.5 years.. this game IS supposed to take about wat.. 7-8 years to complete? just lay back and relax a bit!

*offers everyone rounds of half-full glasses of Oflovak's special Brew to calm ppl down* Cheers all!

Ah, thankfully my lovely wife helps keep my glass half full... drink away homin