Time for some positive comments

[totnkopf]

<snip>

*Turns up at your house with a sledgehammer*
*Begins smashing down your house*

What? If you don't like it, go somewhere else.

this analogy would make sense if you actually owned Nevrax... since you don't, its not quite the same.

Its more like this:
A friend redecorates his house. You enter is and tell him he did everything wrong. In the end, its still not your house, so all you're doing is complaining/suggesting/whining about what he changed. If his redecorating offends you that much, simply leave.

[grimjim]

this analogy would make sense if you actually owned Nevrax... since you don't, its not quite the same.

Its more like this:
A friend redecorates his house. You enter is and tell him he did everything wrong. In the end, its still not your house, so all you're doing is complaining/suggesting/whining about what he changed. If his redecorating offends you that much, simply leave.

That doesn't quite work either, and is further from the situation as an analogy.

[asyne]

*Turns up at your house with a sledgehammer*
*Begins smashing down your house*

What? If you don't like it, go somewhere else.

That's implying that the PvP is cutting into PvE. Show me where it is, and I will totally accept that view. As of yet, I have not seen where the new PvP is cutting into PvE, _except_ in the area of what the devs are working on. And since that is not "smashing down" the PvE that is already in place, nothing is being taken away.

It's more like a communal house is given an added room, and you don't like the look of it. Don't like the look of the new room? Nobody's forcing you to go in.

[grimjim]

That's implying that the PvP is cutting into PvE. Show me where it is, and I will totally accept that view. As of yet, I have not seen where the new PvP is cutting into PvE, _except_ in the area of what the devs are working on. And since that is not "smashing down" the PvE that is already in place, nothing is being taken away.

It's more like a communal house is given an added room, and you don't like the look of it. Don't like the look of the new room? Nobody's forcing you to go in.

Destroying the community spirit.
Excluding those who don't like PvP - or at least forcing them to take part to stay relevent in any way and to keep up.
This will only become more apparent as we move into outposts and area control.

[totnkopf]

Destroying the community spirit.

doubtful considering a 6+ hour truce today where everyone dug in the middle

[grimjim]

doubtful considering a 6+ hour truce today where everyone dug in the middle

Wear and tear on people's spirits and the realisation the damn things will never get dug otherwise I should think. It seems even the gankers get tired.

The whole PvP thing seems to be a fundamentally selfish experience though, if people genuinely do it for the 'challenge' then they should find nuking/smacking diggers extremely tiresome - except they don't.

If your fun absolutely HAS to come at the expense of someone elses, then that really speaks volumes about you as a person.

[akicks]

It's more like a communal house is given an added room, and you don't like the look of it. Don't like the look of the new room? Nobody's forcing you to go in.

Unless that room's the only toilet, and you need to use the facilities. Then yes, you are being forced into the room.

[asyne]

Destroying the community spirit.
Excluding those who don't like PvP - or at least forcing them to take part to stay relevent in any way and to keep up.

Ah, but could you not also turn that around and say that you are destroying the community spirit by excluding those who have an intrest in PvP - or at least forcing them to use methods that the PvE players deem as worthy?

Yes, outposts and area control will form rifts in the community, for the land that was originally public stomping ground will be divided among only the strong, excluding those who desire to be indepentant or neutral. Compare that to what the Dunes gives: new areas that have a negligible effect on the original areas.

As for PvP destroying the community spirit, don't the Olympics have competing factions that compete - with an unbelivable level of community spirit? PvP is nothing more than a gateway through which the players can interact; if PvP in Ryzom creates dissent and hate, that's because behind all those that were fellow combatants turned ganker is a player that wanted to gank in the first place, but was restricted. Consider this a 'revealing' of the true intentions and desires of the players. A strong community (like Ryzom?) should be able to deal with PvP with sportsmanship and honor, whether or not those attributes are required.

6+ hour truce today where everyone dug in the middle

See? You call for players to work together, and here they are. Some still want to fight, and the mature ones keep their fighting to themselves.

=Geez you people reply fast=

if people genuinely do it for the 'challenge' then they should find nuking/smacking diggers extremely tiresome - except they don't.

Then those that don't are immature and can be blackballed by the members of thier faction until thier behavior improves. But maybe...

Wear and tear on people's spirits and the realisation the damn things will never get dug otherwise I should think. It seems even the gankers get tired.

See? People will eventually learn to responsibly use the option of PvP, but until then, immaturity will still hang around. This is the same thing that happened with the PR supreme mats: a collection of individuals think that the area is for them to rule, a collection of opposed players forms and pushed back with equal (or greater) force. The PR situation ended with races to harvest, and that is what is happening in the Dunes. Give it time; maturity - like cream - will rise to the top.

Unless that room's the only toilet, and you need to use the facilities. Then yes, you are being forced into the room.

So, what's the PvP 'toilet'? Honor points? That's the only thing (excepting guild ranking) that is transferrable outside of the Dunes. In this case, I see it as more of a room with a boxing ring, or - given what goes on in the Dunes - a fight club meeting room. The first rule of fight club is that you don't talk about fight club.

[grimjim]

So, what's the PvP 'toilet'? Honor points? That's the only thing (excepting guild ranking) that is transferrable outside of the Dunes. In this case, I see it as more of a room with a boxing ring, or - given what goes on in the Dunes - a fight club meeting room. The first rule is that you don't talk about it.

Points mean prizes = being unable to compete/keep up with those who have thrown themselves wholeheartedly into it. Since those rewards are, on past form, likely to include weapons that can widen the ability gap between PvP fan and non PvP fan with relevance later on during more forced/semi-forced PvP.

Even if there are other non combat rewards they will still decrease the abstainers relative playability and with no similar or concurrent event with non PvP content occuring or even in the offing that can be significant.

Now, I have no issue - normally - with PvP. I'll even participate if it is a plausible and internally consistent effort that coincides with my character's morality.

I get issue with it when it is a prolonged, significant and rewarded event as this is, with no real non PvP option - and it wouldn't have been hard at all to add some more neutral or PvPless option.

I don't think any non PvPer would like to exclude PvP entirely from the game, what they/we are upset about is that it is forced - and it _is_ for reasons explained here and elsewhere. It will be even more forced with the advent of outposts - as they're being initially implemented - and even more so with the factional area control. (Both, again, with rewards and penalties for those who can't or don't want to take part).

So you're enjoying the event, fine, dandy, great for you. Is it so hard to recognise that others don't, yet feel forced to take part? Is it so hard for the pro PvPers to give those people a break and leave them the hell alone? Its not THEIR fault Nevrax didn't provide an option for them and their distress must be negatively impacting the game for you. So show some compassion and respect and leave them the hell alone, even in zone.

Yes its down mostly to immature problem people, many of the same people that plague and disrupt the RP events. Dealing with them though? Don't see how it can be done really.

[akicks]

So, what's the PvP 'toilet'? Honor points? That's the only thing (excepting guild ranking) that is transferrable outside of the Dunes. In this case, I see it as more of a room with a boxing ring, or - given what goes on in the Dunes - a fight club meeting room. The first rule of fight club is that you don't talk about fight club.

You said this game was a house.
This house had a new room added (the new content) that if you don't like the room you don't have to enter.
But I am saying this:
The Room (or the brand new stuff) is the Toilet. While you might not like the tiles on the wall(PvP), you still need to go into the room to use the toilet.

So, if I want to help build the temple (affecting Atys) then I have to use the new room now matter how much I dislike the tiles.