Ryzom

Don't forget one thing:
Guild fusions tend to end up in the merging guilds to create a new guild, mostly and reasonably to not hurt anyone's feelings by giving them the impression of being sucked into another guild.
Since we do not know exactly (or anything...*grml*) how guild fame works out in Episode 2 or in conjunction with acquiring outposts or their upkeep, these "merged new" guilds will most likely have a very difficult standing in terms of fame compared to established ones.

Apart from that, being a member of a guild is not only about gaining power or influence. Comradship and good understanding, the fun of being together, should dominate one's thoughts about guildmemberships, thus fusions as well, for the sake of having fun in a game, shouldn't it?

philu wrote:Yeah but what about a "neutral" guild where most of it's members have pro-Karavan fame? Eh? What about them? Will they still be able to claim neutrality?

Actually most of TNE members have quite low Karavan fame (this is irregardless of the racial fames), and there are even a few of the Matis members who have proKami fame. TNE is and will be a neutral guild wrt Kami/Karavan, and as far as what we've been told so far about the fame rules, I see no problems with us staying that way

hugedan wrote:kept that one quite a sprite

(this applies to Cat's comment too) The Alliance voted on TNEs acceptance, just like it voted on Armada's (another neutral guild). We have always said TNE is neutral, so I don't think I "kept it quiet" at all

sprite wrote:Actually most of TNE members have quite low Karavan fame (this is irregardless of the racial fames), and there are even a few of the Matis members who have proKami fame. TNE is and will be a neutral guild wrt Kami/Karavan, and as far as what we've been told so far about the fame rules, I see no problems with us staying that way

You see this is where I have a problem with the fame and faction issue. I don't think that a guild where the majority of members have 'high' fame for either faction should be allowed to claim neutrality.

Which brings me to the definition of 'high' and 'low' - I bet your definition of low is different from mine. Personally I think faction alignment should be completely controlled buy fame and if a guild has higher than a certain level with either faction they can't be neutral. I'm thinking somewhere along the lines of +10 (yes THAT low). They should have to work to lower that fame before thay can be neutral.

A guild's faction should be controlled by guild fame, not personal or global. What's your guild fame with the Kami/Karavan? That should be the deciding factor IMHO.

Finally, if you're neutral, how come your members fight for the Karavan? How come we killed TNE members because they were fighting for the Karavan during the 'Spy' event? Doesn't sound very neutral to ME mate.

philu wrote:You see this is where I have a problem with the fame and faction issue. I don't think that a guild where the majority of members have 'high' fame for either faction should be allowed to claim neutrality.

Which brings me to the definition of 'high' and 'low' - I bet your definition of low is different from mine. Personally I think faction alignment should be completely controlled buy fame and if a guild has higher than a certain level with either faction they can't be neutral. I'm thinking somewhere along the lines of +10 (yes THAT low). They should have to work to lower that fame before thay can be neutral.

A guild's faction should be controlled by guild fame, not personal or global. What's your guild fame with the Kami/Karavan? That should be the deciding factor IMHO.

Finally, if you're neutral, how come your members fight for the Karavan? How come we killed TNE members because they were fighting for the Karavan during the 'Spy' event? Doesn't sound very neutral to ME mate.

Don't know the answers only the questions....

What if you not in a guild?
What if you have a two member guilds, one member will 100 Karavan fame and the other with a 100 Kami fame (and therefore -100 in the opposite)? Won't this balance to 0 fame and therefore Neutral?

Alot of people will say one thing and do another, its the way of the world....

borg9 wrote:Don't know the answers only the questions....

What if you not in a guild?
What if you have a two member guilds, one member will 100 Karavan fame and the other with a 100 Kami fame (and therefore -100 in the opposite)? Won't this balance to 0 fame and therefore Neutral?

Alot of people will say one thing and do another, its the way of the world....

Never said it was perfect but I still think it needs enforcing.

I'd say that players not in guild should still have the same restrictions but based on global or personal fame.

Yes it will balance to neutral and that's fine IMHO. The members are working towards neutrality by working for both sides - even if not intentionally!

Yes it's quite clear that people say and do different things. What I'M saying is that the actions of guild members should affect the faction standing of a guild. The actions of guild members affects guild fame. So guild fame should control what faction(s) a guild can support. They shouldn't be able to claim neutrality while the majority of their members are working for one of the factions.

To take my initial example further:

Example 1: A guild has -9 Karavan +9 Kami fame - they are true neutrals and can support any of the factions or be neutral.

Example 2: A guild has -11 Karavan +11 Kami fame - they can only support Kami.

Example 3: A guild has +11 Karavan -11 Kami fame - they can only support Karavan.

The +10 threshold is entirely arbitary and could be higher or lower. I wouldn't go much further than +20 or 30 though.

My guild and character have very high Karavan fame. However, the guild is no longer a Karavan guild. I would like to stabilize Kami/Karavan fame, but the only way to accomplish this is to do missions for the Kami. That doesn't work for me due to RP reasons.

There are certain tribes I can do missions for to decrease my fame, but I think if fame is used to compute faction we really should have a hominist or Trytonist faction that lowers fame with both Kami and Karavan.

I suppose if it comes to that I could come up with some reason for giving "reparations" to the Kami, but it seems awfully artificial.

So really what the big question is, is going to be what exactly are neutral guilds going to be doing in the kami v karavan wars?

hugedan wrote:So really what the big question is, is going to be what exactly are neutral guilds going to be doing in the kami v karavan wars?

If you remember the earlier events we had neutrals (and even a few Karavaners) assisting the 'kami' faction in defending Tryton's people in the Prime Roots.

I'd imagine Neutral guilds and individuals would look at each event/case in turn and pick a side (or stay uninvolved) depending.

yeh good point mate, we shall see how things go.

I do hope such a system implimented has consequences for inconsistency or atleast reward for loyalty, otherwise neutrals will get the best of both worlds with least effort in regard to fame aquisition.