Ryzom

Ok guys, I don't say much in these forums but I've read almost all that is said. The issue here is simple, supply and demand. We have a fixed supply and a large demand. This is called a sellers market because the sellers can set the prices. So if there are only a few crafters crafting the quality you want you will be forced to pay their prices or not have anything.

Now onto the crafting harvest supply issue. The people commenting in this thread concerning the facility of crafting. It is difficult and it is tedious. You all seemed to have said it. For those saying it's easy, I don't see you cranking out q200+ goods as was stated as being the problem. And if you are pushing out q200+ they're definitly not all supreme!!! The game is on a log scale, you need much more time/experience to gain levels as you get higher. For the few people who have gotten to q200+ solo they've spent WAY more time doing it, i'm not sure they would be willing to hand out their wares at parties for free. Now the majority of these "uber-guild" crafters got there through the help of well, their guilds, these members helped level the crafter with the knowledge they would be recieving goods in return. Should you be given for free what others have earned? These so called "Uber-guilds" are not the only people crafting:

Jewlry is a great example, we got 2 titans squaring off, we got Haddo with the support of the people and we got Loomas (boss of Melinoe) with the help of the rest of his guild (me included). Melinoe helps out Loomas and as a result he helps out the guild with jewls. The people help out Haddo and as a result he helps out the people. I believe he sells his jewls in Pyr mostly, so ask around.

Concerning money:
Everyone agrees that money is more or less worthless. Why do people hoard money in real life? People hoard it because it is a tool of power. Now in this game as it stands money gets you the following: Packers, Tickets, Apartments. An average player should be set with 2 million dappers. This value can change rapidly depending on the frequency you teleport, we got people who port from stable in Yrk to the Yrk porter after all.

If money after this critical value is useless then what good is it as a means of power? There is no noticeable benefit in this money, therfore what is the subsequent form of power? Equipment. All tasks can be accomplished in game with teamwork, it's a MMORPG we should be playing in teams. Now I admit better gear may facilitate certain actions but it in no way will make or break a team. If the players play as a cohesive team they will prosper as players. Equipment is not, in my opinion, a determining factor.

general statements in the forum: If money is worthless just give us the equipment.

rebuttle: This may sound arrogant etc. But people like to enjoy what they earn. A LOT of hard work goes into crafting/harvesting. Crafting and Harvesting takes a lot longer to level than does fight. First off there are 2 trees to level, and I see very few if any crafters who craft higher than they harvest. Players should be able to enjoy the rewards they have earned. If a guild/player/whatever has broken their back for months attempting to craft better items, why should they just give their rewards for free?

Now my final statements:
If you are not happy with the current happenings of Ryzom there are several options:
1- You may do ANYTHING in game yourself, you can craft or harvest on a whim, if you did not purchase these skills when you started playing, you can pick them up at a trainer for 50 SP and begin either the Harvest Tree or the Craft Tree. So for 100 SP you could be well on your way to levelling your craft to meet your needs, whatever they may be.
2- You may join a guild. I do not understand why people are afraid to join a "uber-guild" there are several large guilds who are currently making good equipment and most are accepting new applicants. Melinoe is always looking for good homins, if you don't like the way we roll, no problem, OmegaV, Out Of Cavern and Pegasus Foundation are 3 other big guilds looking for young bloods.
3- You may approach crafters in game, or in the forums, in a civilised manner, kindness and appreciation goes a lot farther than accusations and angry discourse. Very few people will do something/anything for free except under certain circumstances. You can offer various things in game other than dappers for equipment, most crafters would take raw materials over dappers anyday, the higher the quality of the materials the more they want them!

I hope you all find a solution to your problem for there are several (at least 3) options to solve this equipment problem.
Cordially yours,
--Jaeton
Officer of Melinoe
Official site: http://www.ryzom.twazz.net

roninpvp wrote:Randyval;

Out of curiosity I have to ask. What exactly are you looking for that you cant find. What is the level and type of sword your looking for as well as the minimum HPM and Max damage of the weapon (or Damage over time).

im not looking for any spectacular just a decent 2 handed q 170-q175 something with close to 400max damage sword, the q150 im using now just doesn't do it anymore

randyval wrote:im not looking for any spectacular just a decent 2 handed q 170-q175 something with close to 400max damage sword, the q150 im using now just doesn't do it anymore

400 max for a lvl 170 sword is "spectacular".... IIRC

simple as this.. i craft my own armor, i dig my own mats, i nosey the vendors to see what poeple sell.

I make 1 mill in daps on a round of grinds so money isnt a problem. i can obtain sup and excell fairly easy in PR so getting nice stats on items isnt hard either. Problem is crafters like to craft thier top quality and sell only those on merchants(Problem 1 for the small players or those in between the crafters who make the item needed). Also not many like to make unigue sets or make HQ plan items and those are what sell.(Problem 2) When i craft for people i give them any choice how ever they want it how ever i can make it. If you want purple excell HQ tryker and i can do it, i will do it but for those that know how to ussually dont sell the uncommon stuff on the merchants.

Seems most poeple complain because some one is selling a choice HQ item for 300k and they feel its not justified. if thats so dont buy it.. I have looked at a few HQ shields that were choice on the merchants that were priced that high.. i thought hey i would like to have that for looks to show off but if im gunna hunt with it forget it i can make do with an NPC shield.

Reason why some of us craft is to make what cant be gotten by simply going to an npc and buying it or to make an improved version of what ever item it is they like to have. Personally i like HQ plans or the nifty animated weapons like burning living or electric but poeple dont sell them at reasonable prices for the ease it takes to get the items and make it.. if we were to base it on time and effort then i want to be paid for joining a group to heal because i took the time and effort to lvl to 200+ or paid for enything else for that matter. this is why i craft set of LA for free, its because it can easly be done if all you want it choice no matter then plans if i have them.

starsus wrote:simple as this.. i craft my own armor, i dig my own mats, i nosey the vendors to see what poeple sell.

I make 1 mill in daps on a round of grinds so money isnt a problem. i can obtain sup and excell fairly easy in PR so getting nice stats on items isnt hard either. Problem is crafters like to craft thier top quality and sell only those on merchants(Problem 1 for the small players or those in between the crafters who make the item needed). Also not many like to make unigue sets or make HQ plan items and those are what sell.(Problem 2) When i craft for people i give them any choice how ever they want it how ever i can make it. If you want purple excell HQ tryker and i can do it, i will do it but for those that know how to ussually dont sell the uncommon stuff on the merchants.

Seems most poeple complain because some one is selling a choice HQ item for 300k and they feel its not justified. if thats so dont buy it.. I have looked at a few HQ shields that were choice on the merchants that were priced that high.. i thought hey i would like to have that for looks to show off but if im gunna hunt with it forget it i can make do with an NPC shield.

Reason why some of us craft is to make what cant be gotten by simply going to an npc and buying it or to make an improved version of what ever item it is they like to have. Personally i like HQ plans or the nifty animated weapons like burning living or electric but poeple dont sell them at reasonable prices for the ease it takes to get the items and make it.. if we were to base it on time and effort then i want to be paid for joining a group to heal because i took the time and effort to lvl to 200+ or paid for enything else for that matter. this is why i craft set of LA for free, its because it can easly be done if all you want it choice no matter then plans if i have them.

I have gone to great lengths not to point the finger at any player. In fact, I believe the issue is with nevrax they created the economy or lack there of. Someone commented on the lack of the weapons they wanted on vendors and I agreed.

Several crafters have expressed a willingness to help remedy this situation. So, perhaps the only problem is communication. We have a bazaar forum...all that's needed is a sticky listing willing crafters and what they can make. The consensus seems to be that dappers are worthless so some sort of lists of valuable quartered mats would be most helpful to those of us who don't craft.
I know there are many sites which tell what's needed to make various items, but only crafters seem to know whats hard to find.

Jaeton said it well. Uber-guilds have their advantages. I don't like joining them myself, but I recognize the consequences. I advanced most of the way using choice equipment, and never complained about it. I'll be using choice again if I ever decide to get axe over with (or continue using weapons dozens of levels below me). There is nothing wrong with that. Heck, at high levels the mages kill things so fast it doesn't matter if you use a knobby stick you picked up off the ground. Melee weapon quality just isn't that important. Up to level 210 or so I was using a q150 choice axe and doing fine. Armor matters more, but it still isn't a huge issue (especially when enemies are dealing 1500 damage per hit, and more on criticals).

If prestige is what you're looking for, make it to the top without the help of a guild and you'll be respected. The newbies might not be as impressed if you don't have a white HQ set of q250 armor, but that's the price of taking the hard way. That's why going without a powerful guild is an accomplishment. If you're looking to have a good time and a fulfilling game experience, well, I don't believe equipment class factors into that. Particularly when you're talking about HQ plans and colors - doesn't even affect the stats of the armor.

At level 226 I'm using q150 fine armor, because I wanted to give the turquoise color a shot. I still tank just fine (no pun intended) against level 260 boss mobs. I'm not glaring down from atop an ivory tower here, I know it from both sides of the issue. And I know from personal experience that equipment doesn't matter much. Good equipment is generally going to put out the crafter much more than it helps you. Seen 150 sup mats worth of armor being ground away in a typical leveling group and discarded after 10 levels is horrifying. Man, that hurts deep down. Think about what you're asking here - I don't know about PR (I don't harvest there for RP reasons), but if Nexus is any indication, well, you will almost surely spend less time using the armor than the crafter will spend getting the mats.

The supreme stuff is really meant to be for special occasions I think. In some cases Nevrax is turning this into another EQ, but in some cases it's the players themselves. Aen armor is completely unfair, sup mats are getting harder and harder... But players can be satisfied without being the best. And unless you're Anissa or Always, you aren't the best. If you were, I doubt it would make a difference. Being the best isn't all it's cracked up to be. The best way to prevent this from becoming a PvP game is to stop trying to one-up other players.

And that's plenty enough preaching. Xelir, I agree communication is a big issue. Maybe a sticky on the bazaar would be good, a "crafter inventory." Randyval, what is your in-game name?

sp4rh4wk wrote:general statements in the forum: If money is worthless just give us the equipment.

rebuttle: This may sound arrogant etc. But people like to enjoy what they earn. A LOT of hard work goes into crafting/harvesting. Crafting and Harvesting takes a lot longer to level than does fight. First off there are 2 trees to level, and I see very few if any crafters who craft higher than they harvest. Players should be able to enjoy the rewards they have earned. If a guild/player/whatever has broken their back for months attempting to craft better items, why should they just give their rewards for free?

Nobody's asked for free equipment. They asked for reasonable prices. The basic discussion on prices delt with the issue that several 100 k for a bit of junk, even with an excellent tag on it, is just plain greed.

If someone charges several 100K (or more) for a supreme - or even a *good* excellent, I'm sure people would understand the price tag is relative to the rarity and difficulty of obtaining it.

People desire consistency in pricing, fairness, decent equipment (excellent and supreme is nice, but even *good* choice stuff can be very hard to find), and availabilty. None of those is too much to ask.

I love the way people feel they are being "nerfed" or picked upon when Nevrax introduces changes. It was always intended to have the roots as PvP. Patrols of Kitin was also something that was always going to be introduced. I think what you percieve as nerfing is only seen as such due to the easy ride we were given in the early days of the game (not beta, the start of the game proper).

This aside, there are still plenty of crafters who are willing to make whatever you like. For a price. Think of the merchants as a superstore. Or just a shop even. They will sell you stuff that you need but they're not specialists. They just churn out the bulk goods you need on an everyday basis, with ocassional special offers. You want a Hattori Hanzo sword? Go to Hattori Hanzo.

morgan73 wrote:Nobody's asked for free equipment. They asked for reasonable prices. The basic discussion on prices delt with the issue that several 100 k for a bit of junk, even with an excellent tag on it, is just plain greed.

You know, there was a thread awhile back that some of you might recall, regarding people buying up other crafter's goods (in that case, Haddo jewelry) and reselling it. At the time, the concensus of opinion among those that were upset at the resellers, is that it would be perfectly okay for them to ask whatever the market would bear, as long as they were selling their own stuff.

Here's my take on it: if someone asks a price for their merchandise that nobody is willing to pay, then nobody buys it and the seller makes exactly nothing (besides the base NPC dappers). If that crafter is truly greedy, they'll continue to lower the price (or they will use better mats on a new item so that it will fetch a better price) until it actually sells. At that point, a fair market value has been established, and (in my opinion) neither the buyer nor the seller should feel aggrieved.

Oh, and going back a ways in the thread... what's the current score in the Haddo-Loomas Clash of the Jewelry Titans? Anyone know? I'm just curious is all

Dunno but if thay meet in PvP zone my dappers on Loomas