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Re: Roleplay and Why You "Hate" it
Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 4:36 am
by skbid
I tried to read all these posts but after a while they all started to re-hash the same things. it's simple really, when you log into the game....you ARE role playing whether you choose to be a fanatical follower of the karavan or kami or not. Whether you choose to speak in a way you think your "character" should talk or not. By just "being yourself" you ARE playing a role. The idea of having a tag pop up so everyone will know you're in character is rediculous and far too complicated for the game developers and everyone else to keep up with. Think about how much of a pain in the ass it would be to be typing in character then when somebody doesn't get it and goes off on you you have to switch to your OOC "voice" to try and straighten things out. We were given a history to help us all develop our own views of what our characters should be and how you play the game with that information is your role. I'm glad that people are discussing this topic but frankly I don't see what the problem is in understanding this whole concept of RP. There's 1 side and then there's another side...along with that you can have variations just like in real life....choose how you want to play and then do it...if you aren't having fun doing it..find another game that puts the fun back in it for you but don't try to change the game to make it something it isn't. Lots of us already like it the way it is and if some people want to push more role playing into the game then that's the way the game will evolve. Deal with it or move on, now get logged in to the game and have some damn fun.
Re: Roleplay and Why You "Hate" it
Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 4:36 am
by lyrah68
Concidering how much tedious work this game is just to get ANYTHING out of it...Roleplaying turns from fun into a second full time job.
For me to roleplay, I need atmosphere, content, quests that have a purpose or at least a reason to bother to do them. Something more than two sentences for motivation. And something more than pie in the sky six months away.
I don't dislike or even hate roleplay, but I am not a hardliner, part time, when the mood strikes me. Which in Ryzom, the mood hits less and less and less.
And US vs THEM aint motivation...its called Racism...and the only thing that has done historically is enslave, and intice people to kill as many of the Them as possible. Think of just how much genius and possiblity of all kinds died in the Holacaust, not just Jewish, but Catholic, homosexual, physically disabled (think about Steven Hawkings in 1940 Germany!).
I know....I know....It is JUST a game....or does this us vs them extend beyond the game?? I postulate that it does!
jfoxp wrote:I put hate in quotes, because I find it is too strong a word for most people.
What I don't understand is how anyone can dislike, or hate RP?
This discussion isn't about people who simply choose not to roleplay. You can not roleplay, and still not hate it.
What I've never seen before is that some in this community have a "distaste" for roleplay, and make it sound like it's some evil, or bad thing. That's quite a shock to me. Since when is pretending, or acting ad-lib a thing to be characterized as bad? I don't mean offense to those that don't like RP when I say this, but to me, that seems just as absurd as those who characterize D&D as evil, because of their religious superstitions.
I'm not trying to start arguements, or flames here. I will defend the civility of this post, and my attempt at understanding the feelings out there, by asking the moderators for action if flaming starts.
Some definitions of roleplay are:
So, I have some questions that I would like everyone to answer, and give their reasons why.
Do you feel you're all grown up now, and that pretending to be something in a fictional world is silly?OR
Do you feel that roleplay only has to do with conflict? Examples are RP events that involve PvP, and/or strong Kami vs. Karavan themes.OR
Do you feel that pretending to be in a role that does not involve your God, and also involves magic to be something blasphemous? (I'm serious on this one, lay off the flames guys. I really want to understand things here)OR
Is there some other reason that you have a "distaste" or "disgust" for roleplay?
Re: Roleplay and Why You "Hate" it
Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 7:24 am
by zluggo
It's difficult to role-play a bad guy - to do it well, I mean. Anyone can run around and act like a total jerk, but I wouldn't call that person "a role-player". I'd say handles like "twit" or "idgit" work better.
See, role-playing is an intensely social activity. I say/do a thing which spurs a reaction from you - which I respond to, whereby you... etc. For this interaction to work - "work" as in "come out enjoyable to both parties" - a good lot of respect is needed. Respect for the other player, that is. My character might or might not respect your character, but I, the player, sure as heck respect you, the player (as long as you seem worthy of my respect).
So, role-playing a bad guy and doing a good job of it cannot be about milling around, killing anyone you come across - that behaviour is called "acting out insecurities", or "griefing". Role-playing a bad guy is about stating malicious intent and then give the other guy an opportunity to back out. The classic Shadowclan way (Hooowah Shadowclan!) is to tell you that you're transgressing on Shadowclan land and that you have two choices: pay tribute and scram - or die. Whether or not you actually are on Shadowclan land is irrelevant: here's a big beefy bastidch telling you that you are, and pay up! Play it from there.
Again: role-playing is about respect. Some jerks try to hide behind the tag "role-playing a bad guy", but they need to pop down the pharmacy and buy a big jug of Respect (tm). Some non-role-players should go get some, too, cuz logging onto a role-playing game and going "f*cking role-player" is also showing a severe lack of respect. (I've heard that line - I boggled for a week!)
-H
playing Straphar of Shadowclan
Re: Roleplay and Why You "Hate" it
Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 5:00 pm
by gddss
grimjim wrote:In a conventional roleplaying game the group plays towards a common goal and intra-player conflict is usually minimal and little more than an argument over how to divide the spoils of victory.
To take the stereotypical example a D&D party of adventurers in the most basic and unimaginative setup has the goal of acquiring wealth and power by raiding dungeons which they do by working together as a team combining their abilities to overcome traps, monsters, puzzles etc.
That is the most primitive root form of the roleplaying experience.
PvP sets people against one another and that inevitably leads to conflict, not just in the game but between the once-removed personalities of the people behind it. Everyone has feelings, everyone wants to be the hero but now they can find themselves being 'punked' outmaneuvered and beaten down and that brings a negative slant to a lot of their experience. They're the hero in their own personal story in their head when they play, but to others they're just another 'orc'.
I have previous experience in a massive, worldwide live-action roleplaying society with a heavy emphasis on politicking, backstabbing and, in effect, PvP and that contributed to a horrible, horrible Out of Character atmosphere to the whole society, gossip, nastiness and cheating, favour trading and lord knows what else.
Player rivalry and nasty behaviour is made worse by PvP content and that also provides scope for people to play 'evil' characters which CAN come off as simply annoying.
Short of eliminating homin/homin conflict, and that seems to be a fairly hefty string to this game's bow, there isn't any real solution to this other than to encourage a little responsibility.
It IS an mmoRPG - a roleplaying game, you WILL get more from it if you immerse yourself in the world, read the background, take on a role and enjoy yourself. You won't if you get too caught up in it and take it TOO seriously.
The RP 'haterz' need to recognise that these games will attract people who like to roleplay, especially Ryzom with its open ended structure and, generally, great community. If you don't like RP and someone is RPing at you, politely let them know you don't really go for that.
Equally, people who do roleplay, please listen to me. You HAVE to compromise the way you act for the betterment of the game overall. Sometimes acting purely how your character would act is not what is best for you, them or the game. Reign it in a little sometimes to keep things flowing smooth, find another way to do things, take your revenge or whatever and be CLEAR that you're roleplaying. We could really do with some sort of flag or title that proclaims 'roleplayer' so we can identify each other
Finally, PvPers. This isn't a first person shooter, we're not playing anonymous ciphers given personality only by our choice of weapon and we're not playing the game for an hour's intensive stress relief. Characters have histories, personalities and friends. Be a little respectful of that.
Short recap then, all sides need to be nice to each other and consider what they're doing more.
AMEN!! That was an awesome post and I don't think anyone could of said it better. Thank you!!
Re: Roleplay and Why You "Hate" it
Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 5:20 pm
by sathla
ambika wrote:Also, I tend to be very erratic...so if I RP, it'd be for different sides and whatnot every couple of days. ><;;;
I've seen those "erratic" days alright, it's all in good fun though
To the topic: It depends on my mood whether I RP or not. If I've just gotten off a long and nasty night of work then RPing requires more energy than I'm willing to put into it. Otherwise I'm usually up for some RPing as long as it doesn't get.... too kinky (another story for another day). Grimjim said it very well though, should heed his words there for they are wise indeed.
Re: Roleplay and Why You "Hate" it
Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 6:53 am
by lyrah68
nope they made an area, put vitally important materials in this area and THEN added pvp in this area. The RP area you are discribing sounds like a stage, with a few props, areas to be, buy, sell, craft etc, but NOTHING vital or essential. If THAT is what PVP areas were...then I wouldn't give a rat's rear end if it was or wasn't in game...but that is NOT what PVP areas are.
raynes wrote:What they need to do is designate an entire area to RP. Make it accessable to all players. Include a few tribe camps for the different Karavan and Kami factions and throw in a town for each race. Then if you don't want to RP, you don't go into that area plain and simple.
Then again thats exactly what they have done with PvP and look what happened there.
Re: Roleplay and Why You "Hate" it
Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 7:04 am
by lyrah68
EUREKA! I just figured out why this US vs Them crap gets to me...I am a MOM, I don't CARE what that sides point is. I want peace and quiet, I want BOTH sides to get their cookie and milk and sit and enjoy it, not beat each other up to see who gets the broken glasses and crumbs.
After 16 hours of *whiney toddler voice* MINE!!! GIMME *screaming of preteen child* MOOOOTHER make him get OUT of MY room MOOOOOOMMMMMM(in a warbling pre pubescent girls voice). I don't care WHAT he broke or if he IS in her room, I want two kids that get along.
And guess what, I don't become "not the Momma" when I log on...Mom is a 24/7/365 (except leap years of course, then add a day) Job, not a role you can EVER step out of. Kinda like being a Marine, SURE you can retire, but you are STILL a Marine. (if you don't believe me...ask one). (I tend to think EMTs, Firemen, Police, Teachers, all branches of military, and for the most part Librarians are similar in the once a *role here* always a *role here*).
Re: Roleplay and Why You "Hate" it
Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 7:27 am
by xcomvic
lyrah68 wrote:EUREKA! I just figured out why this US vs Them crap gets to me...I am a MOM, I don't CARE what that sides point is. I want peace and quiet, I want BOTH sides to get their cookie and milk and sit and enjoy it, not beat each other up to see who gets the broken glasses and crumbs.
After 16 hours of *whiney toddler voice* MINE!!! GIMME *screaming of preteen child* MOOOOTHER make him get OUT of MY room MOOOOOOMMMMMM(in a warbling pre pubescent girls voice). I don't care WHAT he broke or if he IS in her room, I want two kids that get along.
And guess what, I don't become "not the Momma" when I log on...Mom is a 24/7/365 (except leap years of course, then add a day) Job, not a role you can EVER step out of. Kinda like being a Marine, SURE you can retire, but you are STILL a Marine. (if you don't believe me...ask one). (I tend to think EMTs, Firemen, Police, Teachers, all branches of military, and for the most part Librarians are similar in the once a *role here* always a *role here*).
you should play the Sims Online then, more suited for mommies...
Re: Roleplay and Why You "Hate" it
Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 7:35 am
by jfoxp
I'm not advocating "us vs. them". I DO want us all to get along.
What I don't understand is why some people have such a negative emotional response to roleplay. It's historically been the opposite, in other games I've played.
I made this topic to try and understand what I saw as people painting RP as some evil entity. Now that I see the complaints about people PvPing under the guise of RP, and using the label of roleplaying to grief, I understand.
But please, don't generalize and hate all RPers just because a few jack-asses claim to RP. That's all I wanted to try and clear up when I started this thread.
Re: Roleplay and Why You "Hate" it
Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 2:57 pm
by varelse
lyrah68 wrote:EUREKA! I just figured out why this US vs Them crap gets to me...I am a MOM, I don't CARE what that sides point is. I want peace and quiet, I want BOTH sides to get their cookie and milk and sit and enjoy it, not beat each other up to see who gets the broken glasses and crumbs.
After 16 hours of *whiney toddler voice* MINE!!! GIMME *screaming of preteen child* MOOOOTHER make him get OUT of MY room MOOOOOOMMMMMM(in a warbling pre pubescent girls voice). I don't care WHAT he broke or if he IS in her room, I want two kids that get along.
And guess what, I don't become "not the Momma" when I log on...Mom is a 24/7/365 (except leap years of course, then add a day) Job, not a role you can EVER step out of. Kinda like being a Marine, SURE you can retire, but you are STILL a Marine. (if you don't believe me...ask one). (I tend to think EMTs, Firemen, Police, Teachers, all branches of military, and for the most part Librarians are similar in the once a *role here* always a *role here*).
In UO, I knew moms that "lived" exclusively in the open pvp area (Felucca, Siege Perilous). I knew moms that roleplayed pirates, vampires, thieves and highway robbers. They were really nice people who happened to get a kick out of slaughtering other player's characters in an online massively mulitplayer fantasy roleplaying game.
And, I knew some teenagers that hated the whole idea of players killing or stealing from other players.
Many people choose roles based on what they want out of the game, and these are not necessarily similar to the roles they play in the real world. That's the beauty of an online world... it allows you to explore, experiment with, and experience different roles in a virtual setting without compromising the roles you play in the real world.