Ryzom

As one who has not yet spoken up on this subject, I may be considered a member this silent majority you have called out. I have to say I agree with bobturke I think it is more important that we rebuild our homes and cities before starting a jihad over which of the seemingly benevelent groups to follow.

Also I would like to state that, while i an a defacto supported on the Karavan because I am Matis born, I would just as gladly support the Kami if the situation is diffrent. I don't need faith in either group. They are not gods they are but mortal beings. Mortal beings that are offering me help to realize my goals of rebuilding sociaty to the glory of all homins. To alienate either the Kami or the Karavan or for that matter any homin (not spouting religious retoric) would make ME the true enemy my people and all homin kind. And possibly even a worse threat than the kiten

Well, unfortunately, like I said, I've got to show how mislead you are. The Kami and the Karavan openly dispute each other and want their followers to act against them. There is no in-between unless you follow neither and reject both. Good luck working that one out. However, if one side were to come to decide peace I think the Kami would be it, they're for the betterment of Atys, not rape of its fertile lands. This is what the Karavan support, and do not care about the planet at all.

For the Kami, according the the Mara fragments:
http://www.ryzom.com/?page=lore_higher_kami_mara
Goals
- Oppose the Karavan


For the Karavan, according to the Flanagan Files:
http://www.ryzom.com/?page=lore_higher_karavan_flanagan
Goals :
- Oppose the Kamis and prevent the worship of Elias Tryton from spreading


The issue is very black and white. The Karavan oppose the Kami. The Kami oppose the Karavan. Do you have to follow what the lore specifically says? No. But don't come complaining when I kill you in a PVP area because you are neutral. After all if you choose not to follow what the lore flat out says, I can choose not to follow what you flat out say.

raynes wrote: The issue is very black and white.

Life is never black and white except when seen by homin at either extreme. I do not deny the lore says that the kami and karavan oppose each other. What I do deny is the need for all homin to take up arms against their fellow homin just because of their political beliefs and/or birth race. Where in the lore does it say this?

What is this PVP area you speak off? Is this a miliraty term?

bobturke wrote:Life is never black and white except when seen by homin at either extreme. I do not deny the lore says that the kami and karavan oppose each other. What I do deny is the need for all homin to take up arms against their fellow homin just because of their political beliefs and/or birth race. Where in the lore does it say this?

Honor and truth say this. If you can not stand by those who you align yourself with, then you are weaker than the common yubo.

raynes wrote:Honor and truth say this. If you can not stand by those who you align yourself with, then you are weaker than the common yubo.

Very true. Which returns to my original point. There are many who do not choose to align themselves with either the Kami or the Karavan. We choose to align ourselves with all who would fight the Kitin. I fight beside those who fight against the Kitin, regardless of who they may be. There are many, including myself, who believe the Kitin are the enemy, not the Kami or Karavan. And I am yet to hear a convincing argument why this should change.

bobturke wrote:Very true. Which returns to my original point. There are many who do not choose to align themselves with either the Kami or the Karavan. We choose to align ourselves with all who would fight the Kitin. I fight beside those who fight against the Kitin, regardless of who they may be. There are many, including myself, who believe the Kitin are the enemy, not the Kami or Karavan. And I am yet to hear a convincing argument why this should change.

Do those many that you refer to do tasks at the request of the Karavan or the Kami? Do they spend more time helping the Karavan than the Kami? No matter what the excuse, if a homin is viewed in a good light by either the Karavan or the Kami, then they support that group. No one is forcing them to help either group.

To put it simply if you are helping the Karavan by doing tasks for them, then you are helping the enemy of the Kami and therefore are an enemy of the Kami.

raynes wrote:Do those many that you refer to do tasks at the request of the Karavan or the Kami? Do they spend more time helping the Karavan than the Kami? No matter what the excuse, if a homin is viewed in a good light by either the Karavan or the Kami, then they support that group. No one is forcing them to help either group.

Heh heh heh So because I do tasks for both the Kami and the Karavan I am allowed to support them both? As I mentioned before I don't really have a preference for either.

raynes wrote: To put it simply if you are helping the Karavan by doing tasks for them, then you are helping the enemy of the Kami and therefore are an enemy of the Kami.

Does this extend to the reverse situation? If I do tasks for the Kami I am a friend of the Kami? If so and I help both am I the enemy of both or the friend of both. [*Turke thinks to himself, "i'm sure he's going to say the former"*]

This black and white world is more confusing than it looks.

bobturke wrote:Heh heh heh So because I do tasks for both the Kami and the Karavan I am allowed to support them both? As I mentioned before I don't really have a preference for either.

Does this extend to the reverse situation? If I do tasks for the Kami I am a friend of the Kami? If so and I help both am I the enemy of both or the friend of both. [*Turke thinks to himself, "i'm sure he's going to say the former"*]

This black and white world is more confusing than it looks.

If you are doing tasks for both you are walking a very dangerious line. Neither the Karavan or the Kami are going to look kindly upon any homin working against them. While both the Kami and the Karavan are quiet now, that will not always be the case. And when they start to speak up those who have been faithful will be rewarded, while those who have worked against them will be punished.

raynes wrote:The issue is very black and white. The Karavan oppose the Kami. The Kami oppose the Karavan. Do you have to follow what the lore specifically says? No. But don't come complaining when I kill you in a PVP area because you are neutral. After all if you choose not to follow what the lore flat out says, I can choose not to follow what you flat out say.

So now you are saying that you don't care what my beliefs are unless they match yours perfectly?! You don't hold any value in homid life unless it is in blind servitude to the kami?! Your mind has become so closed to original thought that you need to lash out at your perseved enemies because you fear that their very existance will poke a hole in the dream world you have constructed for yourself?!

You keep talking about leading me and others like me (those not fortunate enough to have your great wisdom about how the world works) towards the "light" that is the Kami, but your words here today have shown me what that light truely is. A burning fire that is set ignite all of Atys in war. While I am still to fuzzy on the Karavan's values or goals to follow them as blindly as you follow the Kami, I do thank you for bringing the Kami into perfect focus.

PS. That same lore you were quick to point to mentions something you forgot to consider. To both the Kami and the Karavan the Goo is a threat that by far eclipses any worries they have about each other. A few days ago I suggested that we put aside our diffrences and work together on that common goal. I still plan on fighting against the Goo and the Kitin threat but, I want it to be clear that with your help the Kami have lost any hope of converting me into one of their sheep and if any thing they and their followers have gained a new enemy.