Using Vendors for Storage.

[Lukati]

As far as the storage part goes...

If theoretical storage is free through a merchant, then ALL forms of storage should be free. But no. NO OTHER FORM OF STORAGE in this game is free. Go ahead, ask Nevrax if they intended the merchants to be used as a form of storage.

And as far as the stupid comment about Mektoubs only being able to carry 1000 mats... you're absolutely right. Those meks should at least hold a million mats. And you're right. You should be able to physically reach into the inventory of a mektoub from litterally hundreds of kilometers away. It almost makes too much sense!

You're freakin kidding me, right?

Banks sound great. That and free teleportation were a part of every online game I've ever played, and I'm still confused as to why these things have yet to be implemented (although one could argue more pressing matters should definitely take precedence *cough* CONTENT *cough*), but these other claims, like mektoubs not being able to carry the weight of the world in mats and being able to access them from any town in the game are just downright dumbing down the game.

Sorry, this "I will abuse a loophole until I get what I want' business should get you banned.

[ligia]

I for one use this system only recently and i love it, its very conveniant and helpfull, and helpfull to crafters and foragers

I have to wonder what is your problem with people that use it since you don´t...you made a choise and we have made ours...i don´t see any problem with it since its not even perfect due to limitation of things you can have selling

Just have to wonder why you are above that and other players in that concern, just sounds selfish to me, if some people like and use this system acording to you they should not have it...great...

Ty, Ligia

[borguk]

Simple allow packers to TP with harvesters and then make any sale to Hawkers carry a 25% buy back cost based on price. Then if they try to put them on very cheap then someone gets a bonus if they buy them first, if they put them high it wont be worth them buying them back.

Problem solved.

[iphdrunk]

There is no problem here.

Who *exactly* does 'storing' mats on the vendors hurt?

If I decided to offer a whole bunch of mats to whatever player wanted to pay an exorbant fee, would I be somehow cheating?

If I later decided to remove those mats from the vendor...how is that cheating?

The fact that player sales can be accessed from any vendor is a game mechanic that makes everything more convienent.

A fair solution would be to make items avalable only on the merchant in the city where they were sold. That would make the game more realistic, wouldn't it?

But I am sure there would be endless whinning about that, so perhaps it is better not to start down that path at all.

Hi,

A few points:

I'd like to point out that I don't really care/mind about players doing that, although I don't do it myself, why? it is free storage, it is very convenient, allows me to camp nodes, saves me tickets, I can focus on one type of mat, and do big craft rounds, ....because I personally think it is kinda wrong, znd using it as is, it seems to me not using it as intended. BUT: *if* we get an official answer telling me that it's ok to do it, clearly stated in this forums and/or klients I *will* do it for sure, I'll put hundreds of mats, and I won't hide it saying that it's a free market. I will clearly use it as temp storage, I craft and I have no intention at all of selling the mats. I'll camp harvesting nodes for hours just teleporting to put them in the NPC. I'll put the highest price available for resale, and my max item cap for resale will be hit with mats stacks. The fact that devs/CSR remain silent about it means that it's still open to debate)

- It is possible to state that it's a free market, play with the words, and that you can set whatever price you want. The whole difference is that those mats are not intended for resale. Ask the players that put them in all honesty if they intend to sell them. The answer is "no, but if someone buys them, I'm glad" of course, I am also glad if I win the lotto.


(1) It increases the number of items that are displayed and adds load to the server if no filter is used, which means that it forces you to use filters (I buy a diversity and disparity of mats, a fixed filter won't cut it), and it's error prone (at least, the insane prices avoid this later). You say it does not hurt. Does it scale? right now, most crafters sell their grind mats to NPC. Now, imagine all harvesters crafters doing the same. All of them. The server has to keep track of data per resale item. It hurts. People complain about lag.

(2) Leveling rate: crafters not using NPC as storage struggle to manage their inventory, use more tickets and interrupt strip mining to craft rounds, they need to havest a given proportion of the required mats, and stop harvesting to craft. Downtime.

(3) When discussing with a friend, the "pawn shop" analogy came to mind. The big difference is that the resale price for the item is set by the shop owner at his best interest with the objective of profit, not for the original seller's profit.

Although I don't do this myself, I won't harass or insist to players doing that tho. I think there are important issues with inventory management that may justify doing that, and I'm aware GMs have been notified about that by some of the players that are, and the GM answer has been clear: "this is not considered an exploit".


Possible Solutions (open to discussion)

* Improve inventory management (already disussed in long threads, remove the item cap on GH inv atc.)

* Limit the bulk and weight of resale items (hard to balance)

* Ask for a buy back fee proportional to the resale price


In any case: *I'd be more than happy if we get an official answer on this*: YES, I'll do it like crazy IT IS FREE STORAGE!!, and more people will. NO, most of the players that are doing that will stop. No more problem.

[raynes]

As far as the storage part goes...

If theoretical storage is free through a merchant, then ALL forms of storage should be free. But no. NO OTHER FORM OF STORAGE in this game is free. Go ahead, ask Nevrax if they intended the merchants to be used as a form of storage.

And as far as the stupid comment about Mektoubs only being able to carry 1000 mats... you're absolutely right. Those meks should at least hold a million mats. And you're right. You should be able to physically reach into the inventory of a mektoub from litterally hundreds of kilometers away. It almost makes too much sense!

You're freakin kidding me, right?

Banks sound great. That and free teleportation were a part of every online game I've ever played, and I'm still confused as to why these things have yet to be implemented (although one could argue more pressing matters should definitely take precedence *cough* CONTENT *cough*), but these other claims, like mektoubs not being able to carry the weight of the world in mats and being able to access them from any town in the game are just downright dumbing down the game.

Sorry, this "I will abuse a loophole until I get what I want' business should get you banned.

The reason why banks and free teleportation aren't in game yet is for the very reason that you can't access a packer from 20K away, it doesn't fit the game. To make it work would be a nightmare. First of all how would you access your stuff in Matis lands when you are a Fyros? The two races hate each other, one isn't going to let the other open a bank branch in their capital. Second how would the Matis branch get information to and from the Fyros branch? There is no mass communication. You would have to put a request into the bank to get your money or items, then wait while someone actually went and got the item. Banks simple do not fit the game currently.

[lariva]

ROFL ..

First of all go back and read my post - pakies should not be the only thing that can store inventory - i can see banks working across lands with some amount of storage and mektubs city based.... by why would i bother explaining this to you; it is already in the post that you have not read.

It is interesting to see how peopel want to get angry not for a reason but to get pissed.

well here are the news for you - the next time you will fill out your taxes and abuse any available loophole in the tax law, you should go to jail How does that sound?

As far as getting me banned - good luck with that

As far as the storage part goes...

If theoretical storage is free through a merchant, then ALL forms of storage should be free. But no. NO OTHER FORM OF STORAGE in this game is free. Go ahead, ask Nevrax if they intended the merchants to be used as a form of storage.

And as far as the stupid comment about Mektoubs only being able to carry 1000 mats... you're absolutely right. Those meks should at least hold a million mats. And you're right. You should be able to physically reach into the inventory of a mektoub from litterally hundreds of kilometers away. It almost makes too much sense!

You're freakin kidding me, right?

Banks sound great. That and free teleportation were a part of every online game I've ever played, and I'm still confused as to why these things have yet to be implemented (although one could argue more pressing matters should definitely take precedence *cough* CONTENT *cough*), but these other claims, like mektoubs not being able to carry the weight of the world in mats and being able to access them from any town in the game are just downright dumbing down the game.

Sorry, this "I will abuse a loophole until I get what I want' business should get you banned.

[lariva]

Ummm the exact same way Ultima Online, EQ2, SWG etc.... banks worked. They queried the same data store

Implement a wire transfer or something - charge me if I use a bank in fyros... implement a charge based on my fame (just please show me the same numbers as the ones go into effect - not currently the case.)

The fact that nevrax designed economy very poorly should not result in me spending 5 minutes and 50 to 100K to access my stuff. It is rediculous.

If you have nothing to store - good for you; when you will i suspect the song will change.

The reason why banks and free teleportation aren't in game yet is for the very reason that you can't access a packer from 20K away, it doesn't fit the game. To make it work would be a nightmare. First of all how would you access your stuff in Matis lands when you are a Fyros? The two races hate each other, one isn't going to let the other open a bank branch in their capital. Second how would the Matis branch get information to and from the Fyros branch? There is no mass communication. You would have to put a request into the bank to get your money or items, then wait while someone actually went and got the item. Banks simple do not fit the game currently.

[lariva]

I never hid behind 'free market' - right off the beginning I clearly said that I use it, and will continue to use it while it remains available and/or storage management will get fixed to the point where I dont have to waste unreasonable proportion of my time teleporting around.


I can dig 15 mats at a time
I can hold 430 mats on me.
therefore, i can dig 28 times and be overloaded
I spend 33 mats per item craft when I do weapons
therefore I can craft 13 items if i dig everything exactly at the right proportion. More likely then not, 11
i will spend on average 7x the time bouncing beteen source spots for small crafting strips then doing a few large ones (tested yesterday)

What I need to do to enjoy the game more is self explanatory presuming i do not like watching my screen reload.

Hi,

A few points:

I'd like to point out that I don't really care/mind about players doing that, although I don't do it myself, why? it is free storage, it is very convenient, allows me to camp nodes, saves me tickets, I can focus on one type of mat, and do big craft rounds, ....because I personally think it is kinda wrong, znd using it as is, it seems to me not using it as intended. BUT: *if* we get an official answer telling me that it's ok to do it, clearly stated in this forums and/or klients I *will* do it for sure, I'll put hundreds of mats, and I won't hide it saying that it's a free market. I will clearly use it as temp storage, I craft and I have no intention at all of selling the mats. I'll camp harvesting nodes for hours just teleporting to put them in the NPC. I'll put the highest price available for resale, and my max item cap for resale will be hit with mats stacks. The fact that devs/CSR remain silent about it means that it's still open to debate)

- It is possible to state that it's a free market, play with the words, and that you can set whatever price you want. The whole difference is that those mats are not intended for resale. Ask the players that put them in all honesty if they intend to sell them. The answer is "no, but if someone buys them, I'm glad" of course, I am also glad if I win the lotto.


(1) It increases the number of items that are displayed and adds load to the server if no filter is used, which means that it forces you to use filters (I buy a diversity and disparity of mats, a fixed filter won't cut it), and it's error prone (at least, the insane prices avoid this later). You say it does not hurt. Does it scale? right now, most crafters sell their grind mats to NPC. Now, imagine all harvesters crafters doing the same. All of them. The server has to keep track of data per resale item. It hurts. People complain about lag.

(2) Leveling rate: crafters not using NPC as storage struggle to manage their inventory, use more tickets and interrupt strip mining to craft rounds, they need to havest a given proportion of the required mats, and stop harvesting to craft. Downtime.

(3) When discussing with a friend, the "pawn shop" analogy came to mind. The big difference is that the resale price for the item is set by the shop owner at his best interest with the objective of profit, not for the original seller's profit.

Although I don't do this myself, I won't harass or insist to players doing that tho. I think there are important issues with inventory management that may justify doing that, and I'm aware GMs have been notified about that by some of the players that are, and the GM answer has been clear: "this is not considered an exploit".


Possible Solutions (open to discussion)

* Improve inventory management (already disussed in long threads, remove the item cap on GH inv atc.)

* Limit the bulk and weight of resale items (hard to balance)

* Ask for a buy back fee proportional to the resale price


In any case: *I'd be more than happy if we get an official answer on this*: YES, I'll do it like crazy IT IS FREE STORAGE!!, and more people will. NO, most of the players that are doing that will stop. No more problem.

[lariva]

Thats viable to a point. But what about those places where packies will get continiously killed? I dig in Grove of Confusion 1/2 a time - this is not exactly the place where I want to put my pakie for a while. Any aggro will kill it in 20 seconds.

Simple allow packers to TP with harvesters and then make any sale to Hawkers carry a 25% buy back cost based on price. Then if they try to put them on very cheap then someone gets a bonus if they buy them first, if they put them high it wont be worth them buying them back.

Problem solved.

[gddss]

It's wrong because the are knowingly using a game system other then its intended purpose. The Vendors were created so that players could sell their wares to other player. These people have NO intention of actually selling thier wares and are just using the vendors as storage.



What about apartments?...that another 2000
What about Guild Halls?.... Thats another 10000

I know that some people don't want to join a guild and want to go it alone. But being a guild member does have it's advantages. Storage space just being one of them.

If they didn't want to have to join a guild, they could always creat their own and be a one person guild. I know someone who did it for the guild faction, I see no reason why someone couldn't do it for the hall and have that extra 10K room. IMO that would be better than using the vendors. Granted the hall costs 10 mil, but to a crafter, that's really just peanuts.

In regards to another post I see talking about the guild halls... As for the time it takes to port back and forth, really come on now. It's not that bad and if you collect and store, collect and store, then do one huge crafting binge, there ya go. Whether you are traveling to one city because you have mats on that vendor, or to a city where your guild hall is, you're still travelling.