Re: Invasion - Constructive criticism littered with ranting...
Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 3:10 am
Wow! I agree and like your solutions. I was loathe to spend my tokens due to hearing the rewards were lame.
I would like to see the guards spawning, I turned in dozens of packages and never saw a single set of guards spawn (although a guildmate saw some spawning at Dyron, and another guildmate saw some at the crafter camp).
I would like to see the rewarders last a week or more, BUT the event DID drag on and on and on. We kept looking for THE mob to turn it off, and there were two nights of about a hundred or more players mobbing around Dryon killing ANYTHING with the name Raider in its name. A few groups were bold enough to scout around (and build up a HUGE dp in the process, since the whole group would wipe each time anyone of them died).
I completely agree with Grimjim on the reward and the fact that everyone needs to feel that he or she can do SOMETHING to help, even at crafting/digging level 30. And I also agree that reward should be commiserate with level AND be ramped up a tad.
Bare in mind I am a crafter as well as the rest of my levels, but I think for these events that take ALOT of effort (if I spend four DAYS digging, I had better have something serious at the end of all that), the rewards SHOULD be better than an all choice mats weapon that ANY crafter of that level could make. I would say if you put extra effort into it, you should even be able to get something no one else can make (better than supreme even). And I think it should look special as well.
I don't mind the "regular" gameplay getting interupted, I think it NEEDED a "station break" to shake things up a bit and wake us all up. BUT I think that the rewards SHOULD motivate us to help. Since we all KNOW in our hearts that you can not, will not let something that ruins normal game play go on forever, nor can you really allow the Kittins to take over towns and KEEP them. (maybe if you had 50 or 60K players you could afford that experiment, but I don't think you have that many total).
I also think that the generals in the invasion should have been able to give missions to scout out the kittin strongholds to those that were high enough level to actually get close enough to trigger the mission success thing.
And Grimjim, thank you for your clear thinking, logical responce. I know it is tempting to just fly into a wild rant, but yours was less of a whiney rantfest and more of a frustrated constructive criticism. Much more in your post that would help than would hurt.
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I would like to see the guards spawning, I turned in dozens of packages and never saw a single set of guards spawn (although a guildmate saw some spawning at Dyron, and another guildmate saw some at the crafter camp).
I would like to see the rewarders last a week or more, BUT the event DID drag on and on and on. We kept looking for THE mob to turn it off, and there were two nights of about a hundred or more players mobbing around Dryon killing ANYTHING with the name Raider in its name. A few groups were bold enough to scout around (and build up a HUGE dp in the process, since the whole group would wipe each time anyone of them died).
I completely agree with Grimjim on the reward and the fact that everyone needs to feel that he or she can do SOMETHING to help, even at crafting/digging level 30. And I also agree that reward should be commiserate with level AND be ramped up a tad.
Bare in mind I am a crafter as well as the rest of my levels, but I think for these events that take ALOT of effort (if I spend four DAYS digging, I had better have something serious at the end of all that), the rewards SHOULD be better than an all choice mats weapon that ANY crafter of that level could make. I would say if you put extra effort into it, you should even be able to get something no one else can make (better than supreme even). And I think it should look special as well.
I don't mind the "regular" gameplay getting interupted, I think it NEEDED a "station break" to shake things up a bit and wake us all up. BUT I think that the rewards SHOULD motivate us to help. Since we all KNOW in our hearts that you can not, will not let something that ruins normal game play go on forever, nor can you really allow the Kittins to take over towns and KEEP them. (maybe if you had 50 or 60K players you could afford that experiment, but I don't think you have that many total).
I also think that the generals in the invasion should have been able to give missions to scout out the kittin strongholds to those that were high enough level to actually get close enough to trigger the mission success thing.
And Grimjim, thank you for your clear thinking, logical responce. I know it is tempting to just fly into a wild rant, but yours was less of a whiney rantfest and more of a frustrated constructive criticism. Much more in your post that would help than would hurt.
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grimjim wrote:
That said... this invasion...
Cue ranting...
* Nobody has felt like they are accomplishing anything by performing the required tasks.
* Nothing seemed to change or progress, guards that did appear vanished just as quickly or were eaten by Kipuryk (who seems to be invulnerable to attack without the help of uber guards).
* The event has draaaaaggggged for a week with the exact same tasks required over and over and over again with no visible change or feeling of accomplishment.
* Scouting the kitin base (if that's what we found) didn't seem to trigger or accomplish anything.
* Bounty Beaches - The Tryker invasion, is several AU from the main Tryker grounds and from the start was higher level than the other invasions as well as having a lot of normal, nasty, hostile life around. Their camps didn't have any uber guards to help them out either and the invasion point is a LOOOONG way from spawn points.
* In Dyron we began with too easy mobs, then suddenly they're all bumped up to level 160+ cutting out the lower levels. You can't do anything at all without a big team of high level, especially with the magical teleporting kincher jumping everyone seemingly at random.
* Clicking claws/mats to get any of the rewards is a time consuming and, literally, painful process. No reward (in effect) means less motivation for anyone to get involved which makes it harder to accomplish anything, creating a vicious cycle. I have 84 Tryker Prime tokens and a full inventory of 'bits' that I'll never get to exchange now, though I did manage a Fyros axe while the elite kirosta were bugged.
* Player apathy has set in, demonstrating, I think, that the lack of variety in the event and the difficulty of getting reward (especially now that claws numbers are down and mob levels are up) has skewed the reward/effort angle deep into the 'too much effort' camp.
* Some of the 'rewards' beggar belief. I'm thinking especially of the amps. The only worthwhile awards are the 120 prime token weapons, especially since fame doesn't appear to work. This is the UBER grind, I want to be rewarded for my ability and effort as a character, not the strength of my wrist and a degree of patience that couldn't be found in a buddha.
In summation...
Its too difficult, even for higher levels.
The reward is not commensurate to the difficulty/grind/DP.
You cannot see the result of your labours in any meaningful way - ESPECIALLY when all the guards you have made and then look proudly on, turn out to be so wussy that they die when a reaper kincher even looks at them funny.
The Tryker got ESPECIALLY shafted.
*Pant pant pant*
To sum up in even less words. "Frustrating and exasperating."
Now, to be constructive... how to improve the event.
::Cue Top of the Pops countdown music::
1 - Most important... allow people to convert many items at once. If 50 claws = 50 average tokens I should not have to click through a dialogue ten times. You can imagine how annoying that gets trying to gather and convert the 1200 claws needed for the only worthwhile reward - the uber weapons.
2 - Worthwhile and proportionate awards. If I'm level 30 (for example) I should be capable of gathering enough tokens or materials to contribute and also to get something I can actually use that is good. Rewards being able to be examined or to give better indication of what they are would also help here.
For example, lower level creatures could give less claws/goo while highers give more, while higher rewards cost more. So for the same, approximate, effort a level 30 character gets a QL40 'uber' weapon, while a level 100 character gets a QL110 'uber' weapon. Though both have the choice to get a higher or lower reward.
3 - Engagement opportunity for all levels. This is best accomplished the same way the Frahar invasion was I think, concentric rings of different level mobs so that the further you go from base camp the more difficult they are, or have different levels assigned to different areas.
4 - Engagement opportunity for all specialities - warriors got it relatively easy for token conversion this time, and you needed to be a warrior or nuker specialist to survive at all well. More thought in how lower levels of other specialities could involve in the event. 'safer' foraging spots and a greater initial availability of wondermats would have been good in this event's specific instance.
5 - Ensure none of the event content is bugged. Really. Spoiler test the various aspects on the ATS if you have to, but make sure it works.
6 - DP off if it's going to be as hard as this. By all means limit the no DP to the region in which the event takes place only, but this was offputting a lot of people. Max DP with nothing (they felt) to show for it.
7 - Have a spawn/TP right at the event - That was the case for Dyron, but not for Tryker, I don't know about the others. If people are going to be active in the event they want to get right back into it.
8 - Variation - Vary the tasks a little, emphasise different aspects, have 'mini missions' from corporals or something that help the war effort but add variety and allow you to be a 'hero' and earn some fame/money/tokens seperately. EG: 'Go and observe the leader kincher <name> and report back'. Or 'Go to tower X and help them drive off the reaper kincher there before they are overwhelmed'.
9 - Length - This went on too long and the essence of the mission hasn't changed. Too much, too long without any change.
10 - Accomplishment - We should feel we are acheiving something during the event, things should change, we should get feedback, we should see results of our labours.
And lastly - better disclosure.
If the generals in this war had a plan (Construct and man towers to stave off the kitin, scout out their base and defend against them) we should have known what we were doing, it would have kept motivation up. Also, when scouting for a kitin base, it is helpful to know WHAT we're looking for, gawd demmit.
Great try at an epic, long-spanning event but it's just ended up dead in the water due to the points ranted on earlier causing player apathy, and if most of the players don't give a monkeys, the few who do can't accomplish much.
I've said my piece.