Do we really need PvP?

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grimjim
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Re: Do we really need PvP?

Post by grimjim »

xenofur wrote:tell me where i said i wanted or even condoned roots-like pvp, or, in all honesty, shut up.
What you WANT and what you GET are two very different things.

The point of the quote.

Or, another good song quote for this situation...

"You ain't seen nothin' yet."
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xenofur
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Re: Do we really need PvP?

Post by xenofur »

don't know that song and thus read it at face value *shrugs*
as for the rest of what you're saying, i'm having great troubles trying to think up a way that nevrax would make such an error again, what with their current efforts steering away from that, the past experiences and jessica on the team. also, i know to be paranoid about nevrax doing stuff, and attribute quite a lot of the current problems to players demanding stuff without thinking about it, but i also know when to cut nevrax some slack and let them do their thing...
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oauitam
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Re: Do we really need PvP?

Post by oauitam »

Oops, page 29 and a couple of terse words, hehe. This is a good time to note that everyone posting in this thread should be congratulated! The subject must be the most controversial available in MMORPGs and there's not a whiff of smoke, much less a flame. That's probably why we're making progress.

We're posting on a public forum and, on the whole, I'm sure that whatever is being said is being written for any browser of this topic and isn't meant as a personal attack on any of the posters.
xenofur wrote:...snip...
but i also know when to cut nevrax some slack and let them do their thing...
As you can tell (if you notice my tiny post count) I cut Nevrax an awful lot of slack. I feel that this issue is the one above all others that could have a deciding effect on the future of the company and the game. It's obvious that everyone who has posted here loves Ryzom and would hate to see it get ruined (or go bust, which, from a player's perspective, is equivalent). I am seriously concerned that issue could tip the balance.

I think most of us feel that letting Nevrax "do their thing" here will result in more and more PvP. I daren't "cut nevrax some slack" while I'm persuaded that doing so unnecessarily risks the future of Atys.
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vguerin
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Re: Do we really need PvP?

Post by vguerin »

grimjim wrote:*This is balanced by the fact it may put a lot of people off and cause an exodus equal to or greater than those it brings in.
**Which needn't _actually_ necessitate PvP, if the devs are smart.
After our time together I have grown to respect your stance, BUT... This is BOLOGNA !

Only those that chose a side (Choosing alignment is a big part of the changes that HAVE been coming since FBT) will you have to deal with an opposing side. You can also choose not to attack others or infringed on their hard earned Outpost's to avoid conflict.

If you are truly neutral and do not desire Outposts then how does this long overdue addition effect your gameplay ? If your generic/small/low level or RP ONLY you do NOT have to be effected. If you want to choose a side or desire the bounties that they claim an Outpost will provide (if they dont have value they are useless) you take on a risk. If a member of the Samsara was in the region of my Outpost I would not have cause to rally forces etc, unless they choice a position which makes them hostile to me (Like the Kami).

There is nothing wrong with being a tree hugger or RPer... just dont yell FIRE in a crowded movie theater unless there is one... You have to choose to be in a PvP/Guild conflict (FIRE)...
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grimjim
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Re: Do we really need PvP?

Post by grimjim »

vguerin wrote:Only those that chose a side (Choosing alignment is a big part of the changes that HAVE been coming since FBT) will you have to deal with an opposing side. You can also choose not to attack others or infringed on their hard earned Outpost's to avoid conflict.
Outposts involve PvP.
If the Outposts have greater value than pure PvP then they are going to be desired by people who aren't into PvP.
Even if, on paper, they have no greater value than PvP opportunities they will still appeal to people on a pure RP basis.
So, even if they were just PvP, outposts are desired for more reasons than PvP.
Therefore, they create a non-consensual PvP content for people interested in them for a reason beyond PvP and they cut off non-PvPers from a potentially massive and important influx of new 'content'.

This is in exactly the same way that...
PR Zones Value > PvP Opportunities.
YET
PR Zones = PvP
Therefore...
PR Zones = Nonconsensual PvP.
Decreasing the values FUN and AVAILABLE CONTENT for non-PvPers.

You can be neutral and still want outposts.

Regardless...

Increased PvP means more threads like the Infinity one. More problems in game, breakdown of community, likely loss of 'core' players and it simply isn't necessary to provide 'content' OR the challenge of 'human opponents'.
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Jyudas
High Officer in the Samsara
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Currently pondering R2, please hold...
We're neutral, you're just too cheap to hire us.
Remember, other people exist than yourself.
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xenofur
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Re: Do we really need PvP?

Post by xenofur »

solution: ditch outposts completely...
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manya
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Re: Do we really need PvP?

Post by manya »

xenofur wrote:solution: ditch outposts completely...
Is an option I already mentioned a few pages ago, yes. The problem is, if we say 'no' to outposts as they are proposed now, we are saying 'yes' to no content changes for about a year while Nevrax tries to come up with something better.

I don't think we need PvP in any form. But we do need something new or too many people will lose interest and leave.
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drizzeth
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Re: Do we really need PvP?

Post by drizzeth »

[sarcasm] Lets ditch all game mechanics, for fear anything is being misused, we are like kids not fit to play with our toys and we will never learn so we need to loose the toys[/sarcasm]

Its always better to learn how to deal with things then to choose not to learn how to deal with things by removing those things.
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grimjim
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Re: Do we really need PvP?

Post by grimjim »

drizzeth wrote:[sarcasm] Lets ditch all game mechanics, for fear anything is being misused, we are like kids not fit to play with our toys and we will never learn so we need to loose the toys[/sarcasm]

Its always better to learn how to deal with things then to choose not to learn how to deal with things by removing those things.
Oh yeah, absolutely. The only way to learn how to deal with shooting yourself in the head is by shooting yourself in the head. Not by working out ahead of time that shooting yourself in the head is a really bad idea and NOT shooting yourself in the head.

Yep.

Right on!
--
Jyudas
High Officer in the Samsara
WEALTH & GLORY!
Currently pondering R2, please hold...
We're neutral, you're just too cheap to hire us.
Remember, other people exist than yourself.
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drizzeth
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Re: Do we really need PvP?

Post by drizzeth »

grimjim wrote:Oh yeah, absolutely. The only way to learn how to deal with shooting yourself in the head is by shooting yourself in the head. Not by working out ahead of time that shooting yourself in the head is a really bad idea and NOT shooting yourself in the head.

Yep.

Right on!
Now take off your eye patches..

No, try to take my words to a 9 year old kid learning how to deal with money.
Does the kid learn how to deal with money by nothaving any?
Or does it learn how to deal with money by having a personal amount to sped on whatever they like?

Exactly the last one even tho the kid might be hurt on the way buy buying to much candy or bying crapy toys that break or anything else.

This community will not learn how to keep itself in check(nor anything) if everything remotely sensitive to problems is being removed.

Mobs, they are sensitive to being trained onto people in non-pvp areas, lets remove the mobs!

You as a community dont want to learn, dont want to evolve past the age old steriotypes layed out fr you, this is a very sad thing, a reason for me to abbandon this community.You dont even want to see that as a community you can rise above set steriotyping, instead you encourige it, this is sad.

Basicaly you are being as fundamental as people in the dark ages, that never has been a good thing, humanity ad hominity should be all about evolution and earning from erroprs of the past, learning from errors is not removing people that make errors, nor is it removing toys that are misused, its all about adapting to a way that rises above thse petty problems.

Prove yourself to be not a fossile ad actually evolve! Yes this community can evolve past some of the petty problems in here, if not well its nothing new, poeple say guns kill, movies kil, videogames kill, anything but accepting their own responsibillity as a huma being.

For example:

No its not the gun industry why a 9 year old kid picks up a gun and shoots his friend, no its not the miovie industry nor the game industry that made him do it!
Yes it IS the parents that are never home that leave the kid alone with a loaded gun on the salon table that are responsible! Yet they start to sue the gun/movie and game industry.

People should remove their eye-patches and stand up to their own responsibilities!

then again it seems that the lazyness and self-pity humanity has makes them always find a scapegoat to remove the fact that yes instead of the scapegoat they are responsible. Always so easy to outsource your responsibility so you can feel good about yourself.
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