Do we really need PvP?

[petej]

For the storyline?

I'd also have the guides portraying and controlling the bad guys to give that 'human enemy' edge the PvPers are after without causing playerbase issues.

Yes it would be good if boosted chars where availalbe on live to a select team of role players (under strict GM/Guide control) for use in events ,maybe they already do this to a certain extent but it would be good to widen it to atleast 2-3 full teams

[drizzeth]

People involved in outpost battles can be attacked every where on Atys? So you die defending your outpost and have to respawn, someone at the spawn point sees you are flagged for PvP and kills you before you get a chance to heal up. Man I'm loving this allready...

Don't think this will ever happen? Think again in AO people involved in tower wars have been killed after respawning while they were trying to buy heal kits before returning to the battle...


And consider this: You may think your system is idiot prove but we'll just find you a better idiot...

Don't put your hope in game mechanics because there will always be someone who finds a way to "beat the system"

In the end i think theres only 1 single thing that Ryzom forces onto people and that is Grouping.

I think in all other parts of the game Ryzoms beuty is that you have choice everywhere, how you play the game is up to you entirely, I think Nevrax has thought long and deep how to handle pvp to try and make it a maximal possible positive experience, that would be one of the reasons for the delay of this so long planed feature. Also the fact that Jessica is against pvp in general but thinks that the way Nevrax thouoght it out may very well work says something in the indication that there will be a choice at the very least. (and im not a fan of " icons of and industry" i dont think anyone alone (who doesnt actively play the particualr game or is i that way an active part of the community) nescisairily knows whats best for a game and its community.)

EDIT: nothing is fool prove, if someone wants to annoy someone else, they will always find a way, such asa mob train or a blown up Mekkie that doesnt have to mean that other should suffer from other peoples behavior.
An extreme measure to end mob-trai for example would be to remove all mobs lol just an over-extreme.

[vutescu]

I don't think anyone in this thread was claimed to be the possesor of final truth, or know what's best for a game. Not even the ones that works in gaming industry. All we try here is to gather a bunch of arguments - as solid we can - pros and cons PvP.
But unfortunatelly the facts are against free PvP. Usually PvP is becoming Gang vs Player or UberLevel vs Player and that stops being PvP.
UO, AO, CO, EQ, etc. all had huge problems regarding Pk. You can't deny this.

I am against any form of PvP (even duels) but I can understand the benefits of true PvP. But I just don't believe you can implement free PvP in a game and not degenerate in gank-party.

PS I play a mud called TDX (tdome.net). Pk is free there and is encouraged by Imms in any way possible. To their huge disapointment, high level players formed a police force who punish the pk-ers. Well... is no other way to punish a pk-er but to pk him. And in this mud if a player dies more than 18 times, it becomes perm-death. So in other words, where I come from, the punisment for pk is death.

[xenofur]

For the storyline?

_Event_ based PvP where necessary and supported by story.
A multitude of options and many different things _apart_from_fighting_ to attract people to owning outposts.

The outpost battling doesn't worry me TOO greatly at the moment, the apparent lack of depth to it apart from as an excuse for a ruck does give me pause. I'm going to try and wait until we hear more before passing final judgement.

The forces of the Karavan and Kami are going to clash _despite_ the wishes of many homin and the homin can get caught in the middle. That is as valid and interesting, if not more interesting, a story. Survival and resistance.

I'd also have the guides portraying and controlling the bad guys to give that 'human enemy' edge the PvPers are after without causing playerbase issues.

ok, misinterpretation then, outposts are not being questioned as a danger due to pvp. that means the only feature that you are currently arguing against are the FvF zones.

of those you require them being event-based, which will indeed be the cased. these event-based zones will be forced FvF pvp. additionally nevrax makes it possible for the players to participate in world-wide FvF by activating a flag, something which will not in any case touch the normal non-pvp populace.

now to the additions you ask about: i agree they would be nice and some are coming. you ask for things besides the fights to make OPs desirable, well i know for a fact that the outposts will provide content for crafters, also they add bonuses of some sort to your guild members as well as the possibility of creating consumables. another option i see off the bat is a way to at least keep an outpost without lifting a weapon against another player(given your sack of dappers is big enough ).

the last point i strongly agree with, but from talks with event team members i have gained the impression that they are tightly restricted in order to prevent cheating, so that won't be possible.

anything i missed, misunderstood or any other features that would be problematic in relation to the current discussion?

p.s.: i'm currently trying to defuse this a bit, since i see exactly the same happening as in previous "content" discussions.

[xenofur]

People involved in outpost battles can be attacked every where on Atys?

only by members of the opposing guild or by allies of them, not by random people who have the FvF flag on. in fact, with this i can see interesting strategies springing up with guilds getting allies who post elemination squads or protection squads at teleporters. alternatively this could also be solved by putting a full non-pvp zone around teleporters or even whole cities.

[thebax]

only by members of the opposing guild or by allies of them, not by random people who have the FvF flag on. in fact, with this i can see interesting strategies springing up with guilds getting allies who post elemination squads or protection squads at teleporters. alternatively this could also be solved by putting a full non-pvp zone around teleporters or even whole cities.

I would deffinitely be in favor of a non-PvP zone around teleporters, if we are forced into a PvP enviornment. The "strategy" of elimination squads near respawn-points or teleporters is on par with the bombing of hospitals. Makes good strategic sense, but if you need to have it explained why it is wrong, you are likely incapable of reading the forums anyway.

[rushin]

they are. all tp's are safe zones you are basically immune to everything but secondary damage (like yelk gas) - it would be insanity to remove this me thinks

A patch or 2 ago they pulled back the safety net of towns to area just around the tp's, to allow for fighting in towns such as the bandit invasion in Fyros i guess - this i believe is for mob/bandit purposes as u can now see named mobs happily strolling around in the Zorain towns. afaik stables are still non-PvP (ie you cant start duels in their vicinity)

[mrshad]

I would deffinitely be in favor of a non-PvP zone around teleporters, if we are forced into a PvP enviornment. The "strategy" of elimination squads near respawn-points or teleporters is on par with the bombing of hospitals. Makes good strategic sense, but if you need to have it explained why it is wrong, you are likely incapable of reading the forums anyway.

*That wouldn't really work, Bax, and here is why:

If you are immune to being harmed while near a teleporter, not only do you have time to heal yourself, and your comrades, but you also have time to use your protection auras and increase that time of invulnerability.
After spawning and healing, you can, pretty easily, use your magic protection, then speed away back to the fight. Granted that there is a timer on those abilities, and you might only be able to get away with that once or twice. But, to an entrenched defender who is trying to rid their lands of the threat you pose, this provides an unfair grace period.

Similarly, if a guild knows more or less when the invasion is planned, the quickest way to stop the nonsence would be to guard the nearest teleporters, and prevent the invasion force from ever 'landing'.

But, you came from Shadowbane, and I am sure you know all of that.

Clearing spawn points that are near your outpost of aggressors is not like bombing a hospital, because RL != IG. If a hospital is bombed, the wounded are DEAD...FOREVER. Making sure aggressors have a more difficult time of causing you grief in a game is not even remotly comparable.

Besides...bombing hopitals IRL gets you very little..chances are the wounded are permanetly out of the fight anyway, and it just steels the resolve of the enemy.

*This does not mean I support PvP in SoR

[grimjim]

Clearing spawn points that are near your outpost of aggressors is not like bombing a hospital, because RL != IG. If a hospital is bombed, the wounded are DEAD...FOREVER. Making sure aggressors have a more difficult time of causing you grief in a game is not even remotly comparable.

Besides...bombing hopitals IRL gets you very little..chances are the wounded are permanetly out of the fight anyway, and it just steels the resolve of the enemy.

*This does not mean I support PvP in SoR

It is bad sportsmanship and ganking at the very least as teleporters are also spawn points. It is the kind of frustration causing behaviour that makes PvP less acceptable.

[kwhopper]

Another thing they could do is have it so that when a declaration of war is made, the attacking guild picks a couple 'camp' locations within a 500m radius of the outpost (but no closer than 100m). They would only appear when the actual attack phase begins. These would serve as respawn points. These camps would have 2-3 Lv250 NPC guards and the location would have a Sap/HP/Stam regen aura effect at all times (a good one). Defenders could chose to find/attack these camps forcing attackers to respawn even further. This however would leave the main outpost's defenses weakened. It would be a tactical decision based on how the battle is going.

Perhaps associating a cost to these camps (10m - 50m) could determine how many guards each has/what rank aura is around the camp. After battle any remaining camps investment is returned (100% if victorious 50% if attack was a failure).