Ryzom

zonoli wrote:But why change this Zz? If outposts, etc are supposed to be in game anyway? This is obviously upsetting a lot of people. The PvP crowd will be pleased with the outposts/wars that have been promised, and are expected already. Competition is fine, but what about the unguilded, weekend players, etc? I will be at every mass PvP event I can attend, but this opens ganking and griefing. As well as locking people out unfairly. If I do not choose to find a team, careplan and mooch xp off another person until I'm "high enough", and PvP - then I'm not allowed to have supreme mats? Or should only massive guilds be able to own sections of PR?

Because, SoR in it's previous/current state, the game stagnates for higher levels. By changing the prime roots to have more/bigger packs of aggressive mobs (and lesser kitin patrols) and less mats available, it sets the stage for groups/guilds to be hunting down there. That sets the stage for group/guild pvp, not ganking style pvp. It actually deters rpk attacks on harvesters, because they will have their friends around to protect them.

Unguilded and weekend players still have the option of harvesting down in the roots, just not as easily. Making friends with guilds that do frequent down there makes it safer. Not wanting to pair/group up with people who can harvest down there to gain the proper levels to harvest is peoples own decision. There are still many other regions you can harvest in solo. And I know that supreme mats have been found in Matis, Fyros, and Zorai lands. I'm sure there are some in Tryker as well, but no one has found them yet (nor have that many people looked really hard).

I do not believe that solo players should have the same opportunity for the same things as easily as a group of players working together. Just like I don't believe that weekend players should get the same things as those hard-core powergamers in the same real-life timeframe. Powergamers get what they do by putting alot of time and effort into it. That difference should be seen. Having it so a weekend player will be just as good/powerful/ubergeared as someone who spends 60+ hours a week in the same stage of the game is just plain nuts, in my opinion. Over time, yes the weekend player can go and get their own ubergear, and get the same levels as what a powergamer has. but it will all be about the amount of time spent actually in game.

Heck, why not start a gang of mobsters? We will get paid 500 mats per person per hour to "protect" you. You give me protection mats, and I see to it that you stay "safe." I'll also make sure that my pet Tyrancha doesn't happen to follow me over here while I invuln and speed up. This is not content, this is trouble.

This same scenario can happen with or without pvp. Training someone is something to talk with a GM/Guide about. I've even heard about it happening already.

Open PvP events are voluntary, and you walk in with the sole desire to PvP. You can walk in unguilded, with no friends, and without 17 hours to play that day. If this is the only way to get exe/sup mats solo, then what choices do we have? I'm not going to level to 200 2H just so I can safely do what I do now.

Like I said before, the Prime Roots is NOT the only option for getting excellent/supreme mats. There are other zones to get excellent and supreme mats. So you do have the choice, go to a more readily available spot for excellent+supreme mats and face the possibility of pvp, or spend the time looking for and finding them in areas outside of pvp. Second option takes more work, but will allow you to avoid the pvp. Risk vs reward.

All boils down to choices, which there are many, even with pr being less-accesable.

Originally I was against pvp in PR because how the prime roots were set up. Regions that were rather easy to navigate solo, with many soloers. Now that they are setting them up to be group oriented, it seems alot better of an idea, since a)groups are harder to randomly gank and b)getting around solo is considerably harder.

Having areas designed more for group play and areas designed more for solo is a good idea, in my opinion. Having every area in the game open for solo takes away from those people interested in group play. There are still many areas that can be harvested solo, and yield good mats. Not the best, but quite good. If someone wants to get the best, then they will have to work within the system to get it. Which involves either paying someone for them, or working with other people to get it. I would hate to see a game that is called an mmo that doesn't require working with other people to be the best. But that is just my opinion. If I want to be the best in a game by being solo, I'll play an offline game.

You KNOW my feelings on camping, nerfing and PVP...HINT...I left EQ and Lineage two. If you need to hear more, try those out.

Camps are BAD, stealth nerfs are WORSE, and PVP is for upset teenies that don't have a girlfriend/boyfriend to work out frustration with.

PVP has never ADDED anything to a game but frustration and player base LOSS.

Please find ANOTHER way to slow down the leveling than nerfs of foraging areas.

(FYI I got to the PR, and got to a spot only to find I could not forage there, so I left. Not sure IF I will bother with it, I never went into Sleepers in EQ either.)

I hated EQ for many reasons, but the one that got me was that I was PAYING for about 50 zones that I could NOT use due to the devs against Ubber guilds wars. When the percentage of zones I could NOT use, or even explore exceeded the percentage of zones I COULD use. I left.

Add 1 or 2 extra supreme forage spots in each of the lands, and we'll call it even A little something for both solo and or casual players ( non-pr ), and a little something for group minded and or hardcore players ( pr ). Choice is good.

lyrah68 wrote:You KNOW my feelings on camping, nerfing and PVP...HINT...I left EQ and Lineage two. If you need to hear more, try those out.

Yes, we know, you can stop @#$^ing referencing this.

Camps are BAD, stealth nerfs are WORSE, and PVP is for upset teenies that don't have a girlfriend/boyfriend to work out frustration with.

Let's not get insulting now. Pvp style conflict apeals to more than what you describe, so please, don't stereotype a player base in an insulting fashion.

PVP has never ADDED anything to a game but frustration and player base LOSS.

There are a number of games people play because of the pvp, and those people enjoy it. Just because you do not like it, does not mean that it hasn't added enjoyment for other people.

Please find ANOTHER way to slow down the leveling than nerfs of foraging areas.

This did nothing to slow down leveling. Maybe prime roots foraging from 51-90, but even then, proper group foraging can speed that up rather well.

(FYI I got to the PR, and got to a spot only to find I could not forage there, so I left. Not sure IF I will bother with it, I never went into Sleepers in EQ either.)

I think that's their plan. If you don't/can't enjoy a region, no point in going there.

I hated EQ for many reasons, but the one that got me was that I was PAYING for about 50 zones that I could NOT use due to the devs against Ubber guilds wars. When the percentage of zones I could NOT use, or even explore exceeded the percentage of zones I COULD use. I left.

30 regions that are pvp free, no restrictions on harvesting (beyond having prospect for fine/choice/excellent/supreme mats), and just dandy for solo harvesting. And only 8 regions that will have pvp, that are designed more towards group play.

Looks like "hate" posts, "we'll learn to deal" posts, "It doesn't matter" posts, and "Yes" posts. ---

Add them up, and the "yes" posts do not take a majority. Add up the number of different people posting negative votes throughout the forums and compare to the number of different positive votes. Look at the polls. What more does it take to move this beyond a question status, and to a majority opinion - or does it even matter? The code is written, what is willed to be done by Nevrax will be done. I do not know of a single person that has ever foraged a sup mat from Fyros, even amongst /region discussions. That rules %100 of the sup locations we know of gone. I know of 2 regions that I can get exe mats, that's 50% of those gone, and factor in the chances of exact time/place/season/light/dark/weather to get them and exe is out the window. We are having PvP shoved down our throats, like it or not.

The suggestions are not to leave out PvP. The suggestions are add in for the people that want it, and leave the rest of us alone. ---If PR is supposed to be a high level guild war place, implement it that way. Have guild officers declare a gentlemans war on each other. Leave the rest of us alone. Bring in PvP areas and events, don't change what's already here.

A game stagnating for higher level players --- is solved by PvP? Again, look at the posts. Obviously it's not something being demanded on a large part. Fix stagnant games by ADDING content, delivering PROMISED content - not by changing and taking away existing comment. How many higher level players have played for this long, gotten this far - and plan on quitting if PR is not made PvP. I have played numerous games, everyone of them obtaining highest level characters. Never once have I quit a game because PvP was NOT added. I quit every single one because they were jacked with and nerfed beyond what I paid for. Please show me a link to a post that seriously states, "I will quit if PR does not go open PvP." I will match it with 5 of the opposite.

Quit looking at personal preference and listen to the people, as I refer back to the posts and polls. I have said all along I am FOR PvP, in it's proper area, and not a free for all.

Weekend warriors should have the same abilities as anybody else. It just takes them longer to gain levels. This does not factor into them being PK'd because they have a job. Telling people that they don't count because they don't play until their eyes are bloodshot while pounding NoDoze is absurd. The difference should only be amount of time to obtain goals.

Powergamers will obviously hit 250 first. Should we set a game timer, and if you are not logged in, active, and gaining xp for 50 hours per week, you will not be allowed to level beyond 150? Sounds silly doesn't it. Now change "Level to 150" to "Access certain zones, dig there, have nice armor, and be safe." -- Still sounds silly. What about the people who are not fighters? Yes, we exist. We need large groups so we can have better things and be rewarded? What's the bonus to hard work, dedication, and time spent to do it solo? Somebody who foraged their way to 150 heavy armor, instead of getting group mob mats? Starts to sound a bit different if factors are simply rephrased. "You can spend all your time grinding to become a high level forager and crafter, but we're sorry, you didn't group so you can't have the good stuff that easy. Maybe you should get 2 groups and camp a spot for a week."

I hope Cereste has the opinions she needs. I hope Nevrax sits down and adds up yays and nays. The uproar and hot emotions are not demanding PvP in PR, they are against it. Indecision is really a non-vote. If I couldn't decide to vote for Bush or Kerry, then my vote obviously didn't count. "Whatever, I'll learn to deal with any president", is not a vote either way. Nor is, "Eh, leave me alone." going to count. It comes down to Yes and No, and No. We'll see the results of the election after the patch.

piknik2 wrote:Add 1 or 2 extra supreme forage spots in each of the lands, and we'll call it even A little something for both solo and or casual players ( non-pr ), and a little something for group minded and or hardcore players ( pr ). Choice is good.

As piknik2 said. If they add a few more Excellent/Supreme spots in each land to compensate then I see no problem with PvP in PR. Personally I don't think this addition of PvP in the PR is going to solve any issues and i'll rarely head down to there, but that's my choice.

cerest wrote: 2) The deposits will have a limited quantity of MP. Once the players have foraged everything in the deposit, it will remain empty for some time. This should have a big impact in the PvP zones, as players will be able to defend their deposits against other players.

I'm a HARVESTER! I don't want to defend a spot from other players. I'm a HARVESTER! I don't want to fight, if i did i would be a... *gasp* FIGHTER!

PvP huh, well since i'm a harvester and not a figher i guess my strongest weapon would be... training mobs! I've pulled kitin patrols a few hundred meters while trying to let friends get through the roots. As the saying goes "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" ;P

bobturke wrote:Personally I don't think this addition of PvP in the PR is going to solve any issues and i'll rarely head down to there, but that's my choice.

Exactly - Not going to solve any issues. Adding exe/sup mats is a great idea, which needs to be done anyway - but then how do we craft other race armor/mats?

Don't say, "You shouldn't, it's their race", because we can train it. If we dedicate our time to training, raising, and crafting it, then it's obvious we should be able to. Don't point back to, "Get a group to get benefits, and play more to have protection." Why do we need protection, and why isn't my money and time worth as much as yours? Is solo dedication not counted as much as a group? Add OPEN PvP in PR, then add exe/sup, non-racial, equal stat mats to every zone. What bonus should come to people who are SOLO powergamers? I personally play for 5-10 hours or more a day, seven days a week.

Or just add the PvP content already promised to, expected by, and awaited by everybody. Look at this post, at quick count is 12 No's, and 2 Yes's (sydius yes'd twice hehe). Even if I miss counted - it wasn't by 10 people. Now either that is a polled demographic of the players, or the Yes's don't want it badly enough to speak up, muc less be affected by leaving things alone.

Now to answer the original questions.

cerest wrote: 1) Some MPs of high quality will be very hard to forage for a player who doesn't have the sufficiant skill level. This will happen in particular in the prime roots. But the prime roots remain interesting for foragers of lower levels, although they can't forage the best MPs.

I can't see this adding anything to the game. Mostly it will just annoy the players.

cerest wrote: 2) The deposits will have a limited quantity of MP. Once the players have foraged everything in the deposit, it will remain empty for some time. This should have a big impact in the PvP zones, as players will be able to defend their deposits against other players.

This idea is OK as long as the quantity is significant. If its less than 100 it will only detract from the game. However it might work if its say 250 mats (to pick a number outta the air) which then either regenerated at a slowish rate or instantly respawned completely say 4 (or 6 or 3) hours of real life time later.

zonoli wrote:Exactly - Not going to solve any issues. Adding exe/sup mats is a great idea, which needs to be done anyway - but then how do we craft other race armor/mats?

Don't say, "You shouldn't, it's their race", because we can train it. If we dedicate our time to training, raising, and crafting it, then it's obvious we should be able to. Don't point back to, "Get a group to get benefits, and play more to have protection." Why do we need protection, and why isn't my money and time worth as much as yours? Is solo dedication not counted as much as a group? Add OPEN PvP in PR, then add exe/sup, non-racial, equal stat mats to every zone. What bonus should come to people who are SOLO powergamers? I personally play for 5-10 hours or more a day, seven days a week.

You want to make other races armor, and with good mats, you can always work up another harvest branch. I mean, you can dedicate time to exploring and leveling harvest branches to match your crafts. Just like groups can dedicate time to exploring and leveling prime roots harvesting. Sure, you have to level 3 branches instead of 1. But is still possible to craft good gear for each craft type without stepping foot into the PR.

One persons time isn't better than another persons time. But one persons time is gonna be worth less than 5-10 peoples time.

And...to clear something up....There is NO STAT DIFFERENCE between excellen lakeland/forest/jungle/desert mats and excellent prime roots, same for supreme. The only difference is the colour.

Benefit to solo powergamers? Well, people can get high fame, high forage in multiple branches, high crafting in multiple branches, know more about most regions through exploring. I know this because I am a solo powergamer, thx.

And I do not believe they are adding pvp to solve anything, more of something that was planned from earlier on, but have not implimented yet. The game is about conflicts. Kitin vs Homin, Kami vs Karavan, Homin vs Homin.

People need to stop thinking that the PR is the be all and end all regions, and the only place to harvest in game. It's not meant to be a solo harvester-multiracial crafters dream home. It's designed to be the home of the kitin, with much sought after materials, and quite a dangerous place.

People also need to look at how Nevrax is trying to direct the future of the game. They have an 8-yr plan, they are trying to set the stage for how things will play out over the next 8 years. I don't want to see 8 years of harvesting in the same regions, making the same things, fighting the same mobs. I don't want a static world that will bore me. I like options, many many many many options. And I believe that is what they are trying to do. Just it may take some time to get everything set in place.