No powerlevel option?

[zzeii]

So what do I resent; the people who are level 200? No. I resent the effect that their actions will now have on my gameplay experience. It's not that I choose to level slowly, I just do. Now I get to be punsished because I don't powergame.

Yea, just like in EQ when they took out hell levels and streamlined lvl 51-60 progression....

Oh wait...that only punished the people who were already past them...

It isn't a punishment. And it's not so god forsakenly screwed up such that it's impossible to level. At the point where you are close to getting your next Q extraction, it'll slow down, so instead of 3kxp at 191 harvest, you get 1.5k, boo friggin who. You want more mats if you plan on crafting anyways to help keep it on par with what you can forage anyways. Q250 mats do squat if you can't make over q100. I'm hearing powergamers and casual gamers whine about this, when I level just fine not using mat specs at all. Pulling 4 mats gives an extra 240xp over 1. They didn't 'nerf' that.

They slowed down leveling of harvesters, which admitedly, how some people were leveling it was obscene. Now, those harvesters quickly can accumulate a huge dp that they can't work off. Their loss. But hey, with a 118 lake forage, I can still get 3kxp a pull in a cinch in other areas like forest/desert/pr. And do it fairly easily til i catch up to lake. Even with lake i'm still pullin 2400xp a shot at 4x q148. Yea, what a nerf. I feel like i've been punished so bad because someone else is lvl 180+. How ever can I stand it.

[ralgur]

If the devs start nerfing to slow down character progression, then they will have trod down the path of all their predecessors. For some reason, powergamers seem to attract dev attention more than any other player type. The devs go out of their way to try to keep the powergamer interested, and, in the process, alienate the non-powergamers, which, I daresay, are not powergamers. My best advice is to just let the powergamers jet to the top and whine, fizzle out and go away. It'll be better for the game and the other 98% of the players if you do.

[korin77]

I agree there is a difference between powerlevelers and powergamers. Powerlevelers are using exploits to beat the game and are causing drastic actions by the devs like adding kitin patrols and changing mob pathing to change the dynamics of the game. There are so many exploits that are being used by people to level up its not funny : for example. They use an amp made with prime root mats to extend the range of their spells way further than normal, then they attack the mob at an angle through a wall. Since they are so far away, the mob gets stuck and they kill it without any risk.

[lupine04]

Agreed, your stupid if you decide to powerlevel too fast and leave everyone behind. Not only does it cripple that skill (you cant use it in groups) it hurts people in your guild who havent caught up to you yet.


We set a limit of level 130 in our guild, because that is as high as weapons and skills will allow us to go at the moment without reason to go higher. Why? SOme peopel would ask, figure, we are at q140 weapons, with a tops of making q120 weapons (could make q130, but those are worthless, and a 5% for q140 wont work).

Now, with those in place, explain to me how a level 150+ mage is any better then a mage thats at level 120? You cant be, your limited by that one staff, q120, hence, powergamers have no fit right now, they are uslessly cruising past the crafters (They wont have weaposn available for their levels) and no one will want to listen to them when they whine saying they cant kill anythign anymore because the nerf bat hit a home-run on blind. THen they suddenly cant group with anyone anymore because, naturally, they are too high of a level in that particular skill.

The beauty of it. We can switch to different skills, at any time, hence a character with a single level 150 skill obviously hasnt invested any time into his character compared to a player who has reachede high levels of crafting, magic, and magery and has 5+ skills at 100+.

You do the math, this game isnt for powergamers, your hurting yourself, your guild, and with this system, there is no reason to do it.

Peace out,

You know what I love about posts like this? Okay, okay, fine. I'll tell you.

While making their point, the author also includes some information that gives newer players, like myself, some insight into the game system that they didn't have before.. In this case, the interaction between skill and quality levels, etc.. Cool stuff .

Anyways... to keep this post relevant to the topic at hand...

I'm personally not offended by power-gamers or power-levelers. Hey, it's their nickel, let 'em play how they want. If they miss half of what the game has to offer, that's their concern. If they get to the highest level you can, find every item, beat every beast and max every skill.. more power to 'em! (no pun intended). Their behavior doesn't have any effect on my game experience. But that's just me.

Personally, I'm more the "take my time and learn as much as I can along the way".

What I *am* offended by are those who use bots or exploits to monopolize/camp a given spot or a certain mob non-stop. They intimidate, train high level mobs at, or otherwise hinder other players to keep the location to themselves, and thus, make the game less enjoyable for them. It's a problem in FFXI, I know. It's a *huge* problem in L2... Time will tell, I guess, if that becomes a problem in this game, but I sure hope not.

[qwipso20]

As a rule, powerLEVELing is considered cheating. (i.e. people participating in content beyond their level, for gain not usually available to them)
And please don't give me any BS about "If the game allows it, it's not cheating"

Heh you asked for it.

First off that's not BS. If the game allows it, I'm sorry, it's not cheating. The burden of proof is on you to prove that a particular action is cheating, and I don't think you can logically prove it without understanding the points below.

Also, "cheating"...when there is no prize for the first to 250...is meaningless.

MOST importantly, you cannot claim something that the game allows is "cheating" unless it has expressely been indicated by Nevrax as such. Period. Saying a playstyle is cheating is intellectually dishonest, naive, and flat out wrong. Claiming any set of actions is cheating is not yours to do, you do not have authoritative domain over the game, Nevrax does.

Practically speaking, if content is indicated for a level range, and you are going to claim that someone can "access content outside of this indication", then please point to where there is an explicitly posted list of content and associated expected level ranges to access each content item. If you can do that, I will concede the entire point.

Philosophically speaking, the act of designing content for specific level ranges is very flawed. It indicates that you are attempting to predict the playstyle of thousands of people, an act that is either hopelessly futile to get right or woefully draconian. It's a straightjacket applied to gameplay, and certainly not one that sparks the individual freedom to find superior actions that is indicated by Nevrax's wonderful action/stanza system. If someone finds a set of stanzas that allow them to level faster, that is a designed part of the game and not something to cry "nerf" or "cheater" about. Why is this so hard to understand?

I don't normally have anything against powerGAMErs, they rob themselves. Just spending the same number of minutes in the game, doesn't mean you got as much out of the experience. If you spend all of your time in one spot, maximizing your XPs, you won't see nearly as much as a person who travels all over(dieing or not) looking at stuff.
And, as a rule, I don't enjoy the company of powergamers, too much stress.

Ok, so what is -your- explicit standard for the following:

1) How fast should someone level? Express in levels per day OR a percentage of max per day.

2) How often should someone die gaining levels? Express in deaths per day.

3) What is the maximum proper amount of dapper per day to make? Please include degrade factors and mob drops in your analysis.

If you answer these three, then I have a chance to know what you consider proper RPG play.

[qwipso20]

Why? Well players play in ways that developers don't see and don't want to happen. Unintended play. Now I'm going to get to play under a different rule set than the players zoomed on up and found all these stradegies to quickly level.

I have no idea how long it would have taken me to get to level 150-200 under the current system. All I know is it will take me a lot longer under any new system.

So what do I resent; the people who are level 200? No. I resent the effect that their actions will now have on my gameplay experience. It's not that I choose to level slowly, I just do. Now I get to be punsished because I don't powergame.

I did address this in my previous post; rewording this: I have and will continue to advocate the philosophical position that the existance and labelling of "unintended play" is naive. People play a game how they play it. Some try to push the rules to the limits, others put limits on themselves that aren't in the rules. Neither of these positions are bad, they merely exist.

IF the developers dont want something happening, it is their responsibility to code the game so that it doesn't happen. It is NOT our responsibility as players to second guess developer intentions (if for no other reason than they haven't posted them). The only time it is our responsibility to not do certain in game actions is if they are explicitly indicated by Nevrax to be cheating. Any other position is naive and unimplementable.

Now I agree, punishing the playerbase because a few of us found out that experience was based on quality level and the extraction stanzas boosted quality level, that's wrong. However, I'm not going to blame those who figured this out. Instead, I blame the Nevrax developers, who should in turn blame their management for forcing them to release too early, who should in turn blame their own unwillingness to pad the development budget with enough to turn out a more bug-free game that would attract more people due to perceived implementational precision....but I digress here.

The bottom line point is, everyone blames the powerlevellers, and this is misplaced.

(Edited for grammar, stream of consciousness has too many typos.)

[20mike]

You know what I love about posts like this? Okay, okay, fine. I'll tell you.

While making their point, the author also includes some information that gives newer players, like myself, some insight into the game system that they didn't have before.. In this case, the interaction between skill and quality levels, etc.. Cool stuff .

Anyways... to keep this post relevant to the topic at hand...

I'm personally not offended by power-gamers or power-levelers. Hey, it's their nickel, let 'em play how they want. If they miss half of what the game has to offer, that's their concern. If they get to the highest level you can, find every item, beat every beast and max every skill.. more power to 'em! (no pun intended). Their behavior doesn't have any effect on my game experience. But that's just me.

Personally, I'm more the "take my time and learn as much as I can along the way".

What I *am* offended by are those who use bots or exploits to monopolize/camp a given spot or a certain mob non-stop. They intimidate, train high level mobs at, or otherwise hinder other players to keep the location to themselves, and thus, make the game less enjoyable for them. It's a problem in FFXI, I know. It's a *huge* problem in L2... Time will tell, I guess, if that becomes a problem in this game, but I sure hope not.

"Personally, I'm more the "take my time and learn as much as I can along the way"."


Well said Exactly my point. It makes you and all yoru friends stronger if you take time in one area to max all the skills you can, then move up to the next bunch... that IS how the structure of this game has been created... isnt it?

[fellgrim]

Rule of thumb which applies to this game as well as every other MMORPG ever created:

Exploit early, exploit often.


Early adopters of games always have the advantage of 'unintended consequences'. Eventually the loopholes will be sewn shut, hopefully after you have squeezed through them for all they are worth. It may not be right, but it is the fact. And it is human nature to take advantage of whatever is given to you.