Ryzom

Would you rather have it kept under wraps until they are ready to publish new content or have it out so you can play it now ?
Would you rather pay for the same old stuff or play it for free until they release patches and content ?

One thing that we know for sure is that they DO read these forums and that they are well aware of our concerns. I'd rather have them remain silent until whatever they are working on is ready than have them break promises or release broken unfinished patches. Just be glad that the game didn't get purchased by Failcom. So much marketing and overhype wasted on a broken game, so many lies. I tought that no other company could do worse than GF and SOE when it came to ripping off their customers and screwing over games... seems I was wrong.

Spiderweb hasn't ripped you off a single buck and hasn't destroyed Ryzom beyond recognition. On the other hand, they have done pretty good in providing enjoyable "surprises", such as the return of events. The Saga will continue, I hardly see any reason to complain.

kalindra wrote:Spiderweb hasn't ripped you off a single buck and hasn't destroyed Ryzom beyond recognition. On the other hand, they have done pretty good in providing enjoyable "surprises", such as the return of events.

You are right, there are signs that things are evolving and progressing. Since we have not given a single cent to Spiderweb, we have no basis to complain (as in a customer/server setting), but we may as well provide (constructive, of course) criticism, and "raise some concerns" (as a politically correct synonym of complaining )

I hardly see any reason to complain.

There is no reason "per se", except maybe the desire to know more details, to know about the company and the roadmap, or doubts whether it does indeed take so much time to set up a billing system. Players are understandably impatient. However, In order to understand some opposed reactions (including probably mine), it is somehow good to take into account Ryzom's history. I know it seems a weak excuse, but things like:

- Would you rather have it kept under wraps until they are ready to publish new content or have it out so you can play it now ?
- Would you rather pay for the same old stuff or play it for free until they release patches and content ?
- One thing that we know for sure is that they DO read these forums and that they are well aware of our concerns.
- I'd rather have them remain silent until whatever they are working on is ready than have them break promises or release broken unfinished patches.

What you say is indeed very reasonable. I'm afraid thought, that I've seen such statements so many times: understandably, during beta, fbt, and right after release (most oldies have heard about the outpost guild missions, which were even tested eventually, or the 8 years of Ryzom Saga -- years with planned evolution). When Nevrax announced Wintermeer merge. When they restructured the whole company and got Ms. Mulligan as creative director in the team. When the outposts were again again and again delayed. When a new PvP strike team was created. When the nest was first announced, when they were about to tank, when Gameforge took over...

We were suggested to wait, to give them some time, that they were new and that they needed to go though the code... we got teasers such as dev screenshots (the weird altars, the Kami and Karavan troopers), design documents about spires, etc... We were instructed of the importance of quality testing and release procedures.... I was told that mostly by players that, somehow surprisingly, have already quit.

There is no reason *not* to belive what you said, but, sorry, I've become (understably?) a bit agnostic, even bitter if you want, until they deliver at least some elements. Unnamed players were as supporting of Gameforge as you may be now (generally speaking). There is a past history of half implemented features, vaporware announcements and broken promises, not from Spiderweb (which desserve some slack) but from previous owners that have conditioned us.

I will refrain from mindless complainning (well, maybe a lil post here and there, now and then), but although sometimes we need to cool down and take a step back, consider why. It is not a new company, with a new game.

I am guilty of being pessimistic, but I have no factual reasons to be optimistic either

Yours

I do understand why some oldies are growing impatient and pessimistic, yet when I look at other games, I can't help to think that we are somehow lucky.

Ryzom got rezzed, twice. I doubt that games that get the shaft in the present time and near future will get the same chance. Months ago, we couldn't even play and were wondering if the new owners would revive Atys. Not only are we playing now, for free, but we're also given the opportunity to meet the Event Team, this week-end (don't you miss it).

I see progress. It's slow, but it's there. Now if you want to be all doomy and gloomy, don't be surprised if it affects your game experience negatively.

Yeah, I could maybe lay off of them from time to time too. It's just that from what we're hearing, or more to the point not hearing, more like, "deducing" thanks to poor communication from SW, is that it's just the same old people with the same old problems, such as: The poor communication skills, the lack of know how/incompetence/laziness(whichever it is), and the lack of funds(great, they bought the game but do they have the spare capital to invest to actually make it profitable?)

...and that's what has us concerned. We just don't want to be, for all intents and purposes, in exactly the same place 6 months, 1 year, 2 years, 3 years down the line... (again)

It's not like we wouldn't be paying if we could, but do we have to cough up cash before they really let us know what's happening? I'm not sure I buy that happening and it's an arse-about-face way of doing it imo.

kay22626 wrote:Far as players are concerned, the game was already dead, so they lost nothing, they can enjoy the free period, or wait to see what happens.
Spiderweb is under no obligation towards anyone before the billing is up.
They will market when they are ready, they will open the billing when they are ready and they will answer questions when and if they so please, its their good right and its common sense.

kalindra wrote:Spiderweb hasn't ripped you off a single buck and hasn't destroyed Ryzom beyond recognition. On the other hand, they have done pretty good in providing enjoyable "surprises", such as the return of events. The Saga will continue, I hardly see any reason to complain.

Most of us aren't complaining as customers, and if anyone does they'd be easily dismissed. Nobody could in good sense claim that Spiderweb owns us anything, that they've done us any wrong, or that they've broken any agreements.

Most of us 'complain' (or rather: point out what we perceive as flaws) in a desperate attempt to keep the game we love from disappearing on us yet again. Not because we feel wronged by SW, but because we want them to succeed. (Like here ) The signs we're getting do not bode well for Ryzom's future (at least, to us they don't, you may interpret them differently) and all we can do to attempt to prevent this is to point out the flaws we see. Again and again and again, until we see some proof that these flaws are being fixed.

If you saw a car slowly heading towards a cliff, you'd yell at the driver to stop. If there'd be no response, you wouldn't leave it at that one yell, you'd keep yelling at them to stop, over and over. If the driver would acknowledge they heard you yet still showed no sign of intending to stop, you'd probably still keep yelling at them to stop. You wouldn't just stay quiet and assume "Oh well, I'm sure they know what they're doing" until they told you when and how they intended to stop, and why they're not stopping right now. At least I hope you wouldn't.

For those of us who 'spill the same complaints over and over', Spiderweb has not yet told us when and how they intend to stop, has only vaguely alluded to why they aren't stopping right now, and has so far failed to convince us that they intend to stop at all or that they're even seeing the cliff we're seeing. And since we can't stop the car ourselves, all we can do is keep yelling at the ones who can, over and over.

As an addendum: Yes, it's quite possible Spiderweb knows what they're doing much better than we do. But as long as they've failed to convince us of that, we can't just sit by quietly while they are (in our eyes) slowly rolling towards a cliff. And yes, there are also those who just complain about everything for the sake of complaining. Obviously I'm not talking about them.

sidusar wrote:If you saw a car slowly heading towards a cliff, you'd yell at the driver to stop. If there'd be no response, you wouldn't leave it at that one yell, you'd keep yelling at them to stop, over and over.

Analogy is interesting but not accurate. The billing is not up, the game is only there as a test, or a courtesy, its not officially open, so the car is NOT moving. The car is nicely parked, and yes it has a cliff not far in front of it. Yelling at the driver over and over and over again is useless at this point. Especially when he motioned aknowledging that he heard you first time, so he aint dead, deaf or dumb. Yeah you saw the car falling off the cliff twice before but you know what? So did the driver.
Oh and one more thing: imagine a car heading towards a cliff and a bunch of people behind the driver, all of them yelling in his ear their own version of how he should steer to avoid the cliff. Im afraid if the driver doesnt have good earplugs they are all doomed

sidusar wrote:and all we can do to attempt to prevent this is to point out the flaws we see. Again and again and again, until we see some proof that these flaws are being fixed.

Yeah, and complaining endlessly about "flaws we see" will sure prevent it.... Endless complaining will help SW fix the flaws, will also help the community, help bringing new players in and keep them in.
Im sure there are better ways to "help prevent this" than complaining endlessly....but thats just my 2 cents /shrugs and kicks soapbox away

ajsuk wrote:Yeah, I could maybe lay off of them from time to time too. It's just that from what we're hearing, or more to the point not hearing, more like, "deducing" thanks to poor communication from SW, is that it's just the same old people with the same old problems, such as: The poor communication skills, the lack of know how/incompetence/laziness(whichever it is), and the lack of funds(great, they bought the game but do they have the spare capital to invest to actually make it profitable?)

Poor communication is the main problem. (whine not intended)

I think we all understand that getting a MMOG up and running is not a simple matter and there are many obstacles to overcome.

I agree that SW don't have any obligation to tell us anything but it would not hurt to keep the community" in the loop" with daily or weekly updates regarding the development and progress of the project. Headings like "Grr Netbanx lost our application again", "Yay I fixed the exit bug" come to mind. "A problem shared is a problem halved" as the saying goes

There are many games under development and in beta test where the developers have done exactly that!

http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp
https://eu-players.tcos.com/forum/forum ... .php?f=128
http://community.istaria.com/

Abiz

abizmal wrote:
There are many games under development and in beta test where the developers have done exactly that!

http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp
https://eu-players.tcos.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=128
http://community.istaria.com/

Abiz

Despite their excellent record regarding dev updates, etc in the past, I'm not sure pointing at TCOS to illustrate this point is wise since they are currently getting similar criticisms.

That aside, I don't think anyone here is complaining needlessly *points at the bit about driving of a cliff* nor do I think lack of communication with us here is the biggest issue. I said this in my earlier post and I'll repeat it: Where is the advertising? Progress updates here would be lovely, but they can tell us updates on everything right down to who has had how many coffee breaks in the office today, and an IG meeting with the events team is a move i most heartily welcome, but that is all preaching to the converted! We here, all of us, to some extent or other are already players and/or fans. It is not us the devs really need to be talking to; it is everyone else! That is what would set MY mind at ease with regards to Ryzom's future: not what they are going to do IG, but what they are going to do in the real world.

kalindra wrote:I do understand why some oldies are growing impatient and pessimistic, yet when I look at other games, I can't help to think that we are somehow lucky.

Ryzom got rezzed, twice. I doubt that games that get the shaft in the present time and near future will get the same chance. Months ago, we couldn't even play and were wondering if the new owners would revive Atys. Not only are we playing now, for free, but we're also given the opportunity to meet the Event Team, this week-end (don't you miss it).

I see progress. It's slow, but it's there. Now if you want to be all doomy and gloomy, don't be surprised if it affects your game experience negatively.

Well, just take a look at Tabula Rasa, great Game with lots of advertisements, cool (and sometimes pretty obscure) events, amazing graphics and dynamic, action rich gameplay, really good MOB K.I., amazingly good community communications, weekly updates and patches, even monthly new content... and yet it fails. The Servers are closing for good on February 28th.
End of line.

Why? Not enough players to support its costs.
Strangely enough, people didn´t seem to like the setting or whatever it was that caused them not to play.

Probably nobody´s going to save it, because those that provided its support and development are already rescheduled to new projects inside the company, like Aion and other upcoming things that are "sure to give WoW a run for its money." Yeah, right...

To quote a famous 80s Band:
"People are people,
so why should it be,
you and I should get along so awfully?"

We can be glad that our Game has been resurrected by someone who still does see a chance for it to at least carve out a small, supportive niche inside the gaming world for itself. To go with the analogy:
Ryzom´s a small green sapling growing inside a jungle, under the canopy of a huge forest giant, that keeps getting bigger and bigger. Taking the sunlight from all others around it. And unless this giant won´t fall, others will have to struggle to stay alive in its shadow. By specializing and occupying niches in this ecosystem.

We can only hope, along with the people behind Spiderweb, that Ryzoms specialization doesn´t lead down a dead branch on the evolutionary tree of games. And that the little "light" the giant lets through, will be enough to nourish our small plant

SW certainly can´t work wonders. Nobody can, so we´ll just have to wait and see. As always.
Some with a more optimistic view, some with a darker tint to their vision.
Some looking to the light falling through the dense branches above, others staring into the shadows at the bottom of it all.

I too am hpoing that SW will provide us with something new and entertaining as soon as possible. But I am prepared to wait for it, in the personal hope that it will "work as intended" and will provide at least an amount of fun lasting as long as it takes to put up the next "new" thing.

So, wait and see.

CU
Acridiel

sidusar wrote:If you saw a car slowly heading towards a cliff, you'd yell at the driver to stop. If there'd be no response, you wouldn't leave it at that one yell, you'd keep yelling at them to stop, over and over. If the driver would acknowledge they heard you yet still showed no sign of intending to stop, you'd probably still keep yelling at them to stop. You wouldn't just stay quiet and assume "Oh well, I'm sure they know what they're doing" until they told you when and how they intended to stop, and why they're not stopping right now. At least I hope you wouldn't.

Interesting analogy.

There are people who would just yell at the car.
There are people who would do nothing.
There are people who (like me) would run to the car and yelling at the sametime to at least do something and not be passive.