This is the community forum for Ryzom.
https://bb.ryzom.com/
getting positively critical again, aren't we?johntf wrote:Someone did it once, I wouldn't put it beyond the realms of human stupidity to do it twice.
Given the total lack of information on the owners, why assume that they are a business? My bet is on an alien cult. arfindel wrote:You have to play asuming the best cards distribution. Moderate it by statistical probabilities. Against the worst there's simply no way to win.
)A server wipe can not be compared to Cho. What is being proposed has nothing to do with that concept. Cho was a mistake. The situation on Arispotle forced a particular reaction on Cho.dakhound wrote:new fresh server idea was tried before
just meant half the people from aris transferred there because of the great "oppression" they suffered from the evil kara's and hardly any new players joined.
next idea please
and no, I would not be happy at "taking one for the good of the game" I play for fun, not to re-grind all the stuff I did over the last 3 years.
Bridge is a game of fixed odds, little bluffing and no magic. The analogy doesn't quite fit here. Here we want have a fresh deck, or mix some new cards in. Then it's a whole new game. And as for humanity I'm always critical I use the internet as my ultimate example of how low as a species we've fallen.arfindel wrote:getting positively critical again, aren't we?
Before I was into MMOs I was mostly a bridge player. Learnt a thing (or two) there. You have to play asuming the best cards distribution. Moderate it by statistical probabilities. Against the worst there's simply no way to win.
What would suit me is irrelevant, I've been around as long as most and have more than enough skills and dapper to lose. Whats best for me isn't whats best for ryzom I put aside my personal views and wants for whats objectively best in my opinion for the game. Same as you would say you don't want a server reset but you'd be prepared to take one. I know as you say many others would be for it. I just want to see if the staff are prepared to make such tough decisions.petersk wrote:johntf raises some good points, as do Faa and others. Maybe John is right and Ryzom will die a third death. I certainly hope not since I am disgusted with "mainstream" MMO's (i.e. grind quest, grind quest, girnd quest, ad nausium). Tried many other MMO's when Ryzom went down months ago, and none have compared to the complexity of ecosystem, graphics, crafting, modification of spells (none did allow for that besides Ryzom), etc. If you would read the other threads John, you would see that many of us would not mind a server wipe if it was truly needed, we would still play. Would I WANT that to happen? No..
I agree new content is needed, esp if there is no wipe. I heard part of the original plans were to have a second world open up, as well as the overhead roots. Would that be content enough to suit you, at least to start? None of us know the plans of the new owners, and I understand the need to be a bit secretive about new content in games such as this. However, I and others are willing to go on a little faith here since the previous owner (curses the name GF) never did anything except add a gambling wheel to distract the players while the LET Ryzom die. They never intended to have the game succeed, imo. It is my understanding that Nevrax underestimated the true costs involved in developing/releasing the content they had planned. Add to that the release of WoW at about the same time and it spelled disaster for Ryzom. What you said is true, the game did fail, but only once. GF just wanted the codes, which they might have aquired if not for Spiderweb (our mysterious new owners
For the time being, I and many others are content just to be home. In time, hopefully in the next 2 or 3 months, we will be told of the plans to make Ryzom a success. Until then, I will enjoy my digging, crafting, trekking, hunting and chatting with friends. I am willing to go on a little faith, and wait for the answers we all want to have.
Well how about a game where the craft tree specialisations are more spread out evenly amongst players without a small few dominating the whole market, and a game with so many players there is a real, fluid fun sales market for your wares...that way you wouldn't just be grinding as an exercise in mental willpower but for a real profitable fun reason.jared96 wrote:As one who doesn't understand the concept of owning DVD's, (if I saw a movie, why would I want to see the samew thing again), I'd play somehting else before I would start anew w/ Ryzom after a system wipe. I can do new things by strating a new crafting tree, starting a new weapon tree but under no circumstances would ever consider regrinding two dig regions and 6 trees of HA.....BTDT, just doesn't quite get the emotion I feel about a repeat along those fronts.
The game as it currently is and is run went bankrupt twice, it has great potential but a stale unchanging game with a dwindling community is failing. I do believe ryzom is one of the best mmorpgs I'l ever play it just needs caring, nurturing and to be run well.arfindel wrote:I believe it's a lot based on personal experience here, and personal experience... guess what? it's mostly personal *grin*
I logged in every day since the VIP access and each time I barely had time to find my stuff because of chats and had to turn down some invites to hunt as well.
One clarification that needs being done is there are two points of view in extreme opposition:
A. The game never went backrupt, the companies did.
B. The game went banckrupt twice.
Now in my opinion the B assertion is not operable at all. If it's true the game failed twice why bother. But I guess all those who are active here wether they express it or not, base their reasoning on A.
Sorry I was in a rush when I made the post just saying advertising is lying basicly I meant advertising is putting the best spin on things etc. What I would like to see now decisive action or an affirmative statement to do the kind of things that look bad in advertising. Ie you dont advertise we are wiping the servers and forums because its all a mess and we need to start again. Well not in those words.I'm in a rush again my reply is poor once more
About advertising as lieing. Well, advertising might be generalised as lieing, but if you're on the other side of the wall, the producer not the customer, you'll soon see that advertising as lieing might increase your expenses to banckrupcy
But let's get straight here. You say you're doing criticism not negativism. And ask for new content and development. I say once it's almost ready advertising will answer this question. You answer: advertising is lieing. Then what? Waiting for a company oath of faith to the players, a solemn pledge, a legal refund binding? Cmon.
Finally about if this player base, or rather this type of player base can be profitable for Ryzom or not, there are some 2 threads where we debated precisely this during the last month.
"no magic" is quite correct referring to business, you try discussing Ryzom as business, isn't it?johntf wrote:Bridge is a game of fixed odds, little bluffing and no magic.
Most of the time in business are never new cards just new players. As for humanity and ... how low etc. not my cup of tea sorry. This is also an proof you don't just discuss things in a clear minded, cold manner. People are not low or high, they generally follow the Gauss curve, we're all as good as we afford to be. This is the intellectual hypothesis from where I start discussing non aesthetical, non theological problems. Now if you try to discuss with me from my deep personal faith then I'll say I believe every single person is a light and a miracle and if he or she seems otherwies it only means you're not close enough.johntf wrote: The analogy doesn't quite fit here. Here we want have a fresh deck, or mix some new cards in. Then it's a whole new game. And as for humanity I'm always critical I use the internet as my ultimate example of how low as a species we've fallen.
Personally I'd be amused by a server wipe, but I can understand a lot of people would lose things that they cannot have back, things in which they invested emotionally. I also know that for every single company out there a player base of 100+ is the minimum it takes to start, an asset. SO it's up to the company to compare the two risks. I have no access to statistical data so I don't bother to judge what I cannot grasp.johntf wrote: What would suit me is irrelevant, I've been around as long as most and have more than enough skills and dapper to lose. Whats best for me isn't whats best for ryzom I put aside my personal views and wants for whats objectively best in my opinion for the game. Same as you would say you don't want a server reset but you'd be prepared to take one. I know as you say many others would be for it. I just want to see if the staff are prepared to make such tough decisions.
Good, we finally go constructive. This should have been maybe introduced in the threads that discuss what we see appropriate as enhancements for the game.johntf wrote: As for a new above ground world, what will that add;
More mats
More mat locations
More tps
More ops
More mobs to kill
More of everything I've seen before on a different map
So technically no, more crafting diversity available I'd like to see personally. Now I know thats contentious ryzom has one of the best crafting tree's out there. But still there's basicly set recipes for great standard gear leading to a uniformity of colour. Only a few really good mats lead to some change. I don't know what I want just a craft system thats as vast as we have but perhaps with something new, something random added too it. I love ryzom for the crafting more than anything but I can't help but feel it needs some new spice.
johntf wrote: The game as it currently is and is run went bankrupt twice, it has great potential but a stale unchanging game with a dwindling community is failing. I do believe ryzom is one of the best mmorpgs I'l ever play it just needs caring, nurturing and to be run well. Sorry I was in a rush when I made the post just saying advertising is lying basicly I meant advertising is putting the best spin on things etc. What I would like to see now decisive action or an affirmative statement to do the kind of things that look bad in advertising. Ie you dont advertise we are wiping the servers and forums because its all a mess and we need to start again. Well not in those words.I'm in a rush again my reply is poor once more
arfindel wrote:"no magic" is quite correct referring to business, you try discussing Ryzom as business, isn't it?
"fixed odds" is quiiite what makes no programer able yet to make a computer play bridge decently *grin* - yeah, they are finite (compared to Go for example, but darn many and shifting compared to chess).
"Little bluffing" generally fits a lot of card games from the poker root, sorry to say it fits little to not at all to bridge, but what do I know, played only for some 20 years
Again cards argh, no it's not new cards that effects a business to stray into your analogy again new players would be more points or chips you've won not new cards. Cards would be the game or your business decisions and how you choose to manage them. The humanity comment really doesn't apply to my discussion of ryzom it was just a glib aside as to why I'm always critical and I wasn't discussing statistical distributions of people as your whole gaussian thing implies I was just stating an opinion on my view of the state of humanity. As for your aside about everyone being a light or a miracle I would say that everyone starts off that way and has that potential but it's humanities ignorance/arrogance/a billion other things that are too complex and not for here that causes them to not fufil there promise hence me judging humanity the way I do. But mostly thats unlrelated to the whole discussion here
Most of the time in business are never new cards just new players. As for humanity and ... how low etc. not my cup of tea sorry. This is also an proof you don't just discuss things in a clear minded, cold manner. People are not low or high, they generally follow the Gauss curve, we're all as good as we afford to be. This is the intellectual hypothesis from where I start discussing non aesthetical, non theological problems. Now if you try to discuss with me from my deep personal faith then I'll say I believe every single person is a light and a miracle and if he or she seems otherwies it only means you're not close enough.
Well I guess our only disparate positions are that your an optimist and I'm a negative realist. But I'm basing by theory on the fact that the games already died twice through bad management and failing to expand its playerbase and both companies made decent headway into advertising. I remember seeing many banners around for ryzom during Gf's time and while Neverax had massive ratings on the front page of mmorpg.com for ryzom showing us as a great game yet didn't capitalise upon this by running it properly. I just fail to see how you can be optimistic in business in general, or for a game thats died twice already and play the wait and see things will work out card. You simply cannot do that while running a business you must be pro-active and work towards changing a system thats a faliure there are no other options
When we situate ourselves on such disparate position you can imagine discussion is slightly disarrayed simply because we start with completely different dictionaries. I guess coming to Gauss curve and calming down might bring us to a common dictionary.
Well there's a chance that starting afresh with the asset of an existing playerbase might work I don't deny that just my gut instinct and experience and knowlege of this game tell me that it won't work and I've not been wrong yet about ryzom. As for an arbitary number for a company to need as a consumer base seems insane to me I've never heard a single thing like that said about any business ever. I don't have statistical data as such to judge but I do have ryzoms two previous deaths with larger playerbases than we have now, common sense and a relatively sound business acumen to guide me to personally believe that a server wipe would benefit gaining new players faster and more new players. After all thats why most sucessful and big mmorpgs wipe the character level base after an open beta because giving some existing players an unfair advantage (From what most players assume is free play time not a selfless way to test the server) would harm the chance of new players joining. Putting everyone off on an equal footing is exactly the way to start a new game. And although ryzom isn't a new game I think it should start at one as quite frankly it's clearly frelled to anyone with sense at the moment i.e the last two companies died or dropped the game.
Personally I'd be amused by a server wipe, but I can understand a lot of people would lose things that they cannot have back, things in which they invested emotionally. I also know that for every single company out there a player base of 100+ is the minimum it takes to start, an asset. SO it's up to the company to compare the two risks. I have no access to statistical data so I don't bother to judge what I cannot grasp.
Well sense we don't even know if or how much the new company are listening and this isn't a thread about offering new ideas for implementation isnt the game and I haven't got around to posting in such I fail to see your point but anyway.
Good, we finally go constructive. This should have been maybe introduced in the threads that discuss what we see appropriate as enhancements for the game.
Did anyone hear me say WIPE RIGHT NOW, it is of course too soon to wipe now depending on when they intend to go live or not though and I never said too. I simply said the current company running should consider this or speak out if they intend to or not. Caring about a player base too much is a very bad thing in business, in nearly every business you should pretend to value the customer but deep down all you want is to make easy money of them, thats the nature of business. But again you seem to be under the misconception that I want a wipe now, I don't I want a discussion on it's pros and cons or even in this thread hence it's title a reason to come back to ryzom. I've already seen and nearly done everything in the game, got disolusioned by it's lack of pro active management, dwindling player base, and slipping community attitude so I'm looking for a hook or a reason as to why I should start over again and pay my money when the time comes. For me a mmorpg is an investment and if it isn't fun to play or will be here for the long term I fail to see why I should pay my money when the time comes.
I agree I want to see such an action too (with or without the wipe) - but not TOO soon. I understand they really care for the actual player base that's why they gave them such a gift as a free game. I would have appreciated that even without being a current player. But this gift also is ment to give the company time to organise and decide. Maybe in a month after the gift I would become restless and interested to have an update, but for no reason in 5 days after I was allowed to log in for free.