Ryzom

I voted no, for many reasons already expressed, but also for the reason of community, which would be severely crippled if not killed with a wipe. One of the joys I got from Ryzom was finding a noob wandering around and having the mats, skill, dapper and knowledge to get them equiped and trekked. The older players (I thought of myself as a "young adult player") went out of their way to make the new players feel welcome. If there is a wipe, there will be one or 2 players (maybe more) who end up being skilled enough to help noobs and will do one of 2 things: charge outrageous prices for choice or above items or be so busy making items for new players that they will have little/no time to go out and level themselves, or possibly a combination of the 2 paths. If we all start out on the same level, as said before, you can't wipe the experience and the truly new players would still be left in the dust after a short time. Unless of course there is a complete re-mapping of the materials, critters, topography,...everything. Which might not be a bad idea if there is a wipe, it would be the only way to ensure all start out on similar footing, but even then the older player would still have the advantage: we know the mobs (tactics, aggro or not, sensory distances, weaknesses/strengths, etc.). Unless of course the new owners changed all that too . But then, wouldn't that be a brand new game? Not Ryzom?

TBH, I do not have a problem with starting over from scratch. I have done it several times. One toon (levels in the 50's) I left on Silan for helping noobs, one on Aniro after the Aris shutdown, and one just for the heck of it. Starting over does not scare me. What DOES scare me is the damage that could be done to the best MMO community on the net.

In truth I believe the community might become even better because regardless of guild, race or faction we would cooperate to recreate our little world. I also suppose most of us would build up the same character, maybe a little embelished (I know some plumpy girls unhappy not being able to wear those gorgeous fyros skirts and some skinnier ones not happy to not be able to efficiently wear the zorai... errm light armor ,). OPs and faction have polarized the community a lot, let's not close our eyes on it. Working together from scratch would reduce this quite a lot.

No, Ffy, I didn't think about the whole TS going from scratch again. WHat happened when we came was the core of the guild was somewhat in danger. It's one thing to have the game terminated (like in Ryzom's case) and a totally different thing to have the game mutilated and you told in your face that that you're not the "targetted player base" (yeah Sony representative did that, thank you, Sony, won't forget it heh heh). That's why TS needed badly some high level players to be able to help the rest.

Now I wouldn't think TS is going to die, there are a lot of us who won't come to Ryzom but play other games together, so I wouldn't strive so much (let alone I don't have the RL time anymore). Years of efforts both in Ryzom and in Vanguard created a much stronger structure, but back then we were very fragile or that's how I saw it.

Personally the only thing I am not happy with Faa is she's not yet master of all armours and still needs a last dig master But in a year or in 6 I am sure she will be one day

Anyway there is a strong technical possibility that the game cannot start without a wipe, it all depends on some databases, I hope we all realistically consider it.

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Please somebody close my mouth shut, I need to work some not only stay on Ryzom forums.

There a two main reasons being consistantly used for choosing not to back a wipe..

Starting on a wiped server with Cats in place from the get go, takes away 50% of the grind you experienced when you started on Arispotle, I'm speaking from experience when I say it won't take you long to get the levels back, the fun of doing it again far out weighs the masters sacrificed to do it.


Your reputation follows you whatever happens, whether you start over or not, people still know who you are and what you've done. Everyone knows who Drakfot, Keiko, Faa are. Your all well know for different reasons, just because you'd start on a new server wouldn't take anything away from you in those terms.

A server wipe is the best option for new potential players, players arent going to want to start playing on Arispotle, being a few low level players in a server full of multiple master players.

You might question the best possible strategy to gain a profitable subscription base where we've failed in the past, the answer is probably simpler then you might think. There are 8-9 new subs I know that coming back would depend on a wipe.

arfindel wrote: Anyway there is a strong technical possibility that the game cannot start without a wipe, it all depends on some databases, I hope we all realistically consider it.

That's what I've been thinking all along... Its not very unlikely we won't have a choice. I wouldnt mind it for my char alone to restart from scratch. But yeah, the whole game will be shifted and changed if a wipe would occur, might be good, might be bad I dunno. I think I would rather keep it the way we left of if "we have a choice", else well so be it, I'll start again and feel like a noob once more (and would give me the ability to lvl heal again whhieee )

arfindel wrote:In truth I believe the community might become even better because regardless of guild, race or faction we would cooperate to recreate our little world.

I whole heartedly disagree. The server would be owned by those experienced players who are willing and able to play 24/7 for the first couple of weeks. A handful of experienced players can become self sufficient very quickly. They will not need the community. It was knowledge that kept us from leveling when the game was new. We didn't know the best mobs to fight, where to dig, etc.

Also there was no reason to compete at Ryzom's launch. That is no longer the case. The race for OP's will be frantic, those who succeed will be forever on top. There won't be time to chat or to help new players.

One of the major draw back of the temple event was new players had no guidance as the veterans battled it out. A wipe would be even worse. How many players would sacrifice the ability for the guilds to compete by helping new players learn the game, knowing full well that chances are that new player will not be around in 6 weeks.

A wipe would effect the new player the most. There would be no guidance, no gear, no community. The old Ryzom community will be out leveling , while the new community tries to figure out what a node is.

If there is a server wipe, they might as well put in vendor stalls and an item shop in game. It will be just another grind based MMO.

danolt wrote:I whole heartedly disagree. The server would be owned by those experienced players who are willing and able to play 24/7 for the first couple of weeks. A handful of experienced players can become self sufficient very quickly. They will not need the community. It was knowledge that kept us from leveling when the game was new. We didn't know the best mobs to fight, where to dig, etc.

Thats always how it happens on a new server, the best guilds acquire the Outposts first. Its the gold rush effect. It happened on Cho. The mistake people made at that time was to compare a new server only a few weeks old to a server of 2-3 years old. There is no politics in place yet, when the other guilds have caught up there is nothing a single guild can do to hold on to their outposts, and they do catch up, Ryzoms mechanics don't allow a guild and players to stay ahead, it takes no time at all to get your basic pvp masters. When a server starts there are only two or three huge guilds, literally numbering 80+ players, it happened when arispotle and cho started. Ask any old players, 80% of them had at one point been in one of those handful of old pioneering guilds. It takes time for a server to settle, but it does eventually, everything diversifies over time. To suggest that a new server can imitate a very old one from the out set is quite ignorant.

final60 wrote:Starting on a wiped server with Cats in place from the get go, takes away 50% of the grind you experienced when you started on Arispotle, I'm speaking from experience when I say it won't take you long to get the levels back, the fun of doing it again far out weighs the masters sacrificed to do it.

So the wipe-effect would be even more short-term then. New players would face the same high-level chars after one or two months. And how many players would come just because there was a wipe in these two months?

final60 wrote:Your reputation follows you whatever happens, whether you start over or not, people still know who you are and what you've done. Everyone knows who Drakfot, Keiko, Faa are. Your all well know for different reasons, just because you'd start on a new server wouldn't take anything away from you in those terms.

It's right that this is one of the few things you wouldn't lose. I have to agree with that.

final60 wrote:A server wipe is the best option for new potential players, players arent going to want to start playing on Arispotle, being a few low level players in a server full of multiple master players.

According to this strategy every MMO that runs longer than about one year should wipe their complete database on a regular basis, if this is so appealing to new players. The reason why they don't do it is simply: frustration.

You ALWAYS have new players and old players. And in Ryzom it doesn't matter whether you got your lvl 250 for 1 month or for 30 months. It doesn't change anything for new players. If it's so frustrating for new players to encounter experienced high-level players, then you can't set up a long-term MMO at all. If the mere existence of lvl 250 avatars impedes the subscriptions of new players as it is your theory, you had to wipe the database every 3 months.

final60 wrote:You might question the best possible strategy to gain a profitable subscription base where we've failed in the past, the answer is probably simpler then you might think. There are 8-9 new subs I know that coming back would depend on a wipe.

Advertisement and development are the keys. No wipe. A wipe won't attract new players but has the potential of repelling old long-term loyal paying customers. What kind of silly marketing strategy is that?

final60 wrote:There a two main reasons being consistantly used for choosing not to back a wipe..

No, there are much more:
1) The new created character doesn't feel like the old one (emotional)
2) Our history (outcome of alliances, wars, fights, loves and temple wars) and with that an important part of our grown characters vanishes and with that an important basis for our roleplay.
3) Ryzom was advertised with a long-term story and history development in a persistant ongoing world. A wipe would heavily go against that primal thought of ryzom that is story-RP-driven and not about grinding and achieving levels.
4) The wipe-effect would only be short-term, about one or two months
5) old players still have their knowledge to outlevel newbies.
6) The feeling of the "good old times" many pro-wipers are according to won't be brought back through a wipe and if, it is very short-term.
7) You punish the decent slow-levelers and non-grinders and favor the grinding-monsters and powergamers.
8) The guilds would reform, the ops would be distributed between the old guilds. Where's the newbie-effect?
9) Annoyance of the most loyal customers because of a questionable short-term attraction of possible new players that possibly become loyal customers.
10) There's a dozen ways to attract new players without risking the loss of old players.

According to this strategy every MMO that runs longer than about one year should wipe their complete database on a regular basis, if this is so appealing to new players. The reason why they don't do it is simply: frustration.

You ALWAYS have new players and old players. And in Ryzom it doesn't matter whether you got your lvl 250 for 1 month or for 30 months. It doesn't change anything for new players. If it's so frustrating for new players to encounter experienced high-level players, then you can't set up a long-term MMO at all. If the mere existence of lvl 250 avatars impedes the subscriptions of new players as it is your theory, you had to wipe the database every 3 months.

This strategy is unique to Ryzom because its unique circumstances have left a stagnant server set in its way for too long. If Ryzom were successful we wouldn't be in the predicament we are now, outposts would have been here at the start, meaning alot of players wouldnt have left while waiting for them, we'd be in the canopys and another planet by now, but we arent.

final60 wrote:
Starting on a wiped server with Cats in place from the get go, takes away 50% of the grind you experienced when you started on Arispotle,


Your reputation follows you whatever happens...

A server wipe is the best option for new potential players...

You might question the best possible strategy to gain a profitable subscription base where we've failed in the past, the answer is probably simpler then you might think...

Good points...

However...about cats: Who will control them? Will everyone have access to them or only a select few? What about the people who have said they will never use cat again or have never used them? What happens if that group controls the q50 and q100 OP's? Will they dispense cat when it goes against their grain to do so? Will cat be available through a cash shop? If so, then the problem will be even worse. A cash shop would destroy the spirit that makes Ryzom so wonderful.

I agree with you about a reputation, assuming we are allowed to use our old names, and assuming people WILL use their old names or announce who they were in the old game. Not everyone's rep was a good one, but a wipe will allow a few people to "start fresh" should they desire it.

Server wipe....Hmm.. not sure about that, for reasons stated both pro and con. Could go either way.

Sub base....I feel part of the attraction of Ryzom is also a weakness to some. It is not a grindfest like WoW or others. It requires teamwork, insight, planning, patience, maturity, and practice to play the game as an effective character. Many people out in the gaming world are simply not up to the challenge. Take crafting as an example: any fool playing WoW can make an item 100% of the time, perfectly and exactly the same as before once they learn the skill. Not so with Ryzom, it takes time and experience to find the best recipies, and to avoid degrades. Spell casting: few games I know of allow a player to mix up the spell components to modify the outcome. Again, experience and experimentation are involved here. I guess what i am trying to say is Ryzom is for the more intellectual players, not the grind robots, which is part of what makes it unique, and in my opinion, is also part of the problem in attracting people who are used to the mind numbing ease of other games.

As I said in the beginning of this post, you make some good points, but for me the jury is still out on what would be the best for all.

final60 wrote:This strategy is unique to Ryzom because its unique circumstances have left a stagnant server set in its way for too long. If Ryzom were successful we wouldn't be in the predicament we are now, outposts would have been here at the start, meaning alot of players wouldnt have left while waiting for them, we'd be in the canopys and another planet by now, but we arent.

Ryzom was far less stagnating than other MMOs where you can't shape the world or history at all but where you repeat the same quests and the same raids again and again.
And in no other MMO it's less difficult for new players to play with experienced players because of the multi-skills. I was around with dozens of fresh players in the last three years and I *never* was unable to play, level and have a much of fun with them although I had some 250ies. A wipe in Ryzom is even less necessary than it would be in other games where high-levels and low-levels cannot play together.
In Ryzom highlevel chars and lowlevels chars can play better together than in every other MMO I know. Heavy advertising and our caring community, supported by the newbie-friendly skill system will do it greatly for our beloved game and attract new players without all the disadvantages I listed again and again.