Still 8.2 Rating on mmorpg.com

[iphdrunk]

Uhm....

There is one more canned answer: after reaching certain lvls and having "been there, done that" a mmorpg becomes a really fancy chatroom where teamplay and friends and guildmates whom you interact with in a beautyful world count for far more than "content"....

True I did not pretend to be exhaustive, and I was (on purpose) biased and favoring one side

And darn, I haven't finished the Atysian flora atlas yet so don't go tempting me with Classifying insects by their night habits and writing it down with zorai pictograms, Ani

It was a "made-up" example, all resemblances with blah blah are merely coincidental... but do not forget to say it if you do, I'll read it

*hugs btw*

hugs back!... At least, we increased the forum posts.. it's so empty lately... frsutrating...

[fiach]

Oh great

Just shaking things a bit, but I would like to state that it is a bit of a shame that everytime that someone complains about the lack of content (whatever your flavor-definition-of-the-day for that word) etc. needs to face a row of canned answers.

Acknowledging that there may be some truth in what the player says, and discussing with an open mind... and not caricaturing the players as dumb "youwin-button" pushers, ignorants that need to be told what to do, insensitive quest-repeaters and gold-farmers, totally lacking in lots of aspects in what some think to be the "true and only way of playing a MMRPG", may be a sensitive thing ?

(yes, mine is also a canned answer)

Yours,
Ani

QFE/QFT

But apart from that, Ani's post is actually of a quality more in keeping with Ryzom players (supposed?) maturity and harks back to a time when there were more people here for decent informed debate, that had incredible passion, scope and variety, a great post Ani

Devils advocate hat on The forum debates probably had more content than the actual game

*Whistles while donning Flame Retardent Trousers +3*

[ajsuk]

Oh goodie, I knew if I kept my trap shut someone else would do all the work for me. *more hugs for Ani*

[iceaxe68]

Well sure. I meant it with a touch of sarcasm. (Would you believe it? )

yes, Jayce, I know.

It's very possible to stretch out the content and make do. The point is you shouldn't have to, especially for a period of two years-plus.

I really don't feel like I've stretched things out, other than I swore off cats, and I "only" play 2-4 hours a day.

I do understand the frustration with all of the things that might have been but are not yet. I truly sympathize with those who currently have little reason to log in, whether because the PvP is drastically reduced, or because friends have left, or simply because they've done all of the things currently available that they want.

All of us, I think, would love to see the game grow and expand, whether you call it "content" or whatever else one might care to see. And I know we'd all like to see more people around. I think that may be part of the reason that those of us still logging in regularly argue against the reasons for leaving. We miss you.


Edit: P.S. Happy Birthday to me! 1 year on Atys today.

[browserice]

Edit: P.S. Happy Birthday to me! 1 year on Atys today.

So if its been 1 earthly year you have been born on Atys and one Atys cycle is ?? hours, that would make you a ??? years old Homin ?

I can never remember the time specs of Atys .... grrrrrrr

[sidusar]

360 earth days makes up 5 Atys years, so she'd be a little more than 5 years old.

Anyways, forgive me the late post. I was a little afraid the thread might spiral into hotter regions. But it seems things have stayed friendly and it's safe for me to reply...

Acknowledging that there may be some truth in what the player says, and discussing with an open mind... and not caricaturing the players [...] may be a sensitive thing ?

You're right ofcourse, Ani, that caricaturing others for the sake of argument is not a sensitive thing to do. As a player who can be amused for hours counting the spots in a varynx skin, but who also has half a dozen 250s under her belt, I often feel caught in the middle. I'd feel just as attacked by the "those who care about their levels aren't true Ryzom players" attitude as by the "classifying atysian insects by their nightly feeding habits is a sad waste of time" attitude.

But fortunally, this is rare. It is ofcourse difficult to correctly gauge the intention from written text, but I think that most of the time this subject comes up, it's indeed in the form of open (if sometimes heated) discussion. Or as semi-friendly bickering that reminds me of the "boys/girls are better" arguments in grade school.

Enjoy your way of playing. Be proud that your way of playing is the most fun way. Try to convince others why your way of playing is the most fun. Tell them what they're missing out on because they don't play that way. But don't tell them they're lacking something because they can't enjoy what you enjoy. It will not convince them that your way of playing is more fun, only that it's supporters are arrogant. And honestly, isn't it so that you can't enjoy what they enjoy either?

* Attitude B: "I'd rather have live events and interesting story arcs than any stoopid ´save-the-princess-again´ quest"

[...]

* "Any content addition will be consumed by players in a few hours/days, and they'll be soon asking for more content additions

But yes, ofcourse I'm going to argue what kind of new content I'd most like to see. That's not to say those players that enjoy saving the princess again are less worthy players, just that I personally would rather see precious development time spent on something else. And in some cases I would indeed rather not see any new content at all... No matter how little new content we've received since launch, that doesn't mean I'd now welcome any and all content additions. Non-durable content additions can be just as half-baked and shortsighted, and there's plenty of possible additions that would actually make the game less fun for me.

I'm also afraid it is mutually exclusive, exactly because any content addition will be consumed by the players much faster than the devs can cook it up. It doesn't need to be that way, but no single game company is big enough to provide endless new content for every type of player. And specially not a small company like Ryzom's, they have to make choices. (I've even gotten the impression, though I could be wrong ofcourse, that part of the reason we've received so little new content is because they were always trying to work on everything and thus never finished anything.)

But even if we'd gotten regular content additions, I do not think you can expect any one game to always provide you with enough content to keep you from becoming bored. At some point you'll have 'consumed' all the content, and you'll have to either look for new content in other games, or stay and 'make your own content'. Or get bored. I think the reason some of us are such fierce supporters of making your own content, is because we'd hate to see the few remaining players leave to find new content in other games, which we know is the only alternative. Though you can ofcourse do both as well. I regularly play other games for a while to get my fix of 'new content', but always return to Ryzom because it's simply the best platform for 'making your own content'.

[iphdrunk]

You're right ofcourse, Ani, that caricaturing others for the sake of argument is not a sensitive thing to do. As a player who can be amused for hours counting the spots in a varynx skin, but who also has half a dozen 250s under her belt, I often feel caught in the middle. I'd feel just as attacked by the "those who care about their levels aren't true Ryzom players" attitude as by the "classifying atysian insects by their nightly feeding habits is a sad waste of time" attitude.

Sidusar,

Thanks for your post. After reading it, I think mine would need further explanation. As I stated to Komi, the post was purposedly "biased" and "one-sided". I do agree that the "classifying atysian insects is a waste" attitude is as negative as the ones I mentioned and, although my words were (carelessly?) picken in a (unintentionally flaming?) hyperbolic-style for the purposes of making a point, I admit they may sound aggressive. For that, my apologies.

On a personal note, let me mention that I am in a similar position as you are: although it cannot be deduced by the tone of my post , and in spite of (besides) having several "roxxor"-masters, I am also a big fan of "insectoid" activities and aspects, including some of your findings, Komi's fauna and pictograms studies, (passive) follower of the first major RP-efforts back to 2004 (Cercle de Sokkarie, in the French community), etc. and I have myself spent countless hours on craft and dig related activities including "nerdish" studies such as "optimization-based guidelines to overcrafting delta for a wide range of assumptions in order to maximize profit and xp per mat"

Enjoy your way of playing. Be proud that your way of playing is the most fun way. Try to convince others why your way of playing is the most fun. Tell them what they're missing out on because they don't play that way. But don't tell them they're lacking something because they can't enjoy what you enjoy.

Very good summary of the underlying message.

That's not to say those players that enjoy saving the princess again are less worthy players, just that I personally would rather see precious development time spent on something else (snip).

I see what you mean, but -as past experience seems to indicate, imho- you need to catter for all kinds of play styles and precious development time needs to be schedulled to address all kinds of aspects. Sadly, whatever you do, someone will (rightly?) complain. As much as there are many play-styles, there are many (different) ideas on what players think precious dev time should be spent on (just let's look at the forums...)

In other words, the statement that they are mutually exclusive makes the assumption that the devs time should be focused. This does not need to be the case (and it has been stated that it often isn't, given the specialized profiles of people involved: 3d artists, programmers, writers...)

Non-durable content additions can be just as half-baked and shortsighted, and there's plenty of possible additions that would actually make the game less fun for me.

Of course then can be... although some of those additions that would make the game less fun for you can mean another players (temporary?) happiness.

they have to make choices.

I tend to think that we cannot pretend (it would be arrogant and condescending) to know *what* choices they would need to make -- although we are slighlty going offtopic, it remains interesting -- so, although of course they need to make choices, they need to catter to at least a few playstyles (without precluding the valid idea that Ryzom should keep its uniqueness and not catter for *all* players, filling a niche). A complex subject and I, of course, do not pretend to know the answer, I would be earning gazilions publishing my own MMRPG...

(that part of the reason we've received so little new content is because they were always trying to work on everything and thus never finished anything.)

I agree and I think it is a reasonable explanation.

Though you can ofcourse do both as well. I regularly play other games for a while to get my fix of 'new content', but always return to Ryzom because it's simply the best platform for 'making your own content'.

And the ideal situation would be not to play other games...

Thanks for reading

Ani

[katriell]

you need to catter for all kinds of play styles and precious development time needs to be schedulled to address all kinds of aspects

It shouldn't be that way.

[iphdrunk]

It shouldn't be that way.

I agree (to some extent) it shouldn't. Or at least, not catter for *all* play-styles. I sympathize with the line of thought that states that Ryzom should fill a niche, and stand on its own cattering for a subset (yet the definition of subset varies) and not be a "bread and butter" MMRPG.

As long as: a) we cannot agree on *which* and *how many* play styles need to be addressed. b) there is this annoying "profitability" thing, we need to accomodate the "diversity"



Edit: fixed ashaming typos.

[acridiel]

Pffff.... Ani, Ani, Ani...
These posts were like (healthy) blows to the gut.

You are absolutely right, and to my eternal shame I must admit that sometimes I tend to "forget" that there is no such thing as a "true" play style for the sake of an ongoing argument. *sigh*

But, it´s simple actually, I can´t for the life of me get my head around the notion, that "Levels are everything". I´m biased and probably a moron for that, but well...

And as for contend, yes... accomodating diversity is a very clever thing to do.
We´ve got absolutely no guarante that any new owners will even look at these boards, let alone care about our feelings and thoughts.

So, we have to arrange and get along.
No way arround it.

CU
Acridiel