Ryzom

norvic wrote:*starts throwing egg at Cosmo in a determined fashion*

Here's hopin that you aim is true and my face is big....that didn't sound quite right.

Let's just hope your aim is true, shall we?

cosmo365 wrote:If the player base, as a revenue generation device, wasn't enough to keep Nevrax solvent, what in the world makes you think that anyone will but it? Are you suggesting that another company will buy someone's idea (which is really what IP is) and a revenue generation model that cannot support itself? That is what any business school would call stupid, err a bad business decision.

The revenue from players is most likely more than sufficient to pay for the ongoing operations of the game and then some. What it can't cover is all the debt Nevrax assumed for the initial coding, marketing, server setup, etc. The buyer will only assume part of this debt (how much is what the current negotiations is all about) and so has a much easier time of turning a profit.

Most of value of Nevrax isn't in it's IP, it's in the fact that it's an operating business. If the company shuts down before a buyer is found the IP is worth much less. With shutdown, the customers are gone, the contact for servers/bandwidth/support is gone, and the developers who know the code are gone, and the reputation of the game goes down the tubes. Anyone who buys the Ryzom code and wants to run Ryzom would have to incur considerable expense to restart the game and get it to the point. NeL is open source, so a major part of the code isn't part of the IP owned by Nevrax.

Shutting down Nevrax and Ryzom is a loosing proposition for the investors, Nevrax staff, any potential buyer and of course the player community. Keeping it going gets some of the money back for the investors, gives the buyer the chance to make money and keeps world alive for the players. In negotiations, when there's a win/win outcome possible the loose/loose outcome is less likely.

see below!

thurgond wrote:The revenue from players is most likely more than sufficient to pay for the ongoing operations of the game and then some. What it can't cover is all the debt Nevrax assumed for the initial coding, marketing, server setup, etc. The buyer will only assume part of this debt (how much is what the current negotiations is all about) and so has a much easier time of turning a profit.

Most of value of Nevrax isn't in it's IP, it's in the fact that it's an operating business. If the company shuts down before a buyer is found the IP is worth much less. With shutdown, the customers are gone, the contact for servers/bandwidth/support is gone, and the developers who know the code are gone, and the reputation of the game goes down the tubes. Anyone who buys the Ryzom code and wants to run Ryzom would have to incur considerable expense to restart the game and get it to the point. NeL is open source, so a major part of the code isn't part of the IP owned by Nevrax.

Shutting down Nevrax and Ryzom is a loosing proposition for the investors, Nevrax staff, any potential buyer and of course the player community. Keeping it going gets some of the money back for the investors, gives the buyer the chance to make money and keeps world alive for the players. In negotiations, when there's a win/win outcome possible the loose/loose outcome is less likely.

You said that much better than I did.

cosmo365 wrote: Are you suggesting that another company will buy someone's idea (which is really what IP is) and a revenue generation model that cannot support itself? That is what any business school would call stupid, err a bad business decision.

please dont hurt me but I think sony has done this in the past with matrix online (was owned by warner brothers and an independant developer team) so its possible this could happen again. In fact if anyone buys this it will probably be a sony like company that owns its own servers etc. The customer base (us) will follow plus others who are looking at what sony has to offer will subscribe when they see the 2 million titles that sony has to offer for its sony pass thingy. So its entirely possible and even likely that a large corporation with servers already running and staff in place who like what they see to take this on because in the end it wont cost them much more to run it and will add more customers

yeah i know i said it Sony but that is about the only company that I can think of right now that does buy games in a bad financial state and makes them work (of course they also often fix them but uh yeah...)

think of matrix online , everquest and uh well there you have it.. examples of games that had problems that were bought up because the original owners didn't have the capital to keep it afloat any longer

ummax wrote:please dont hurt me but I think sony has done this in the past with matrix online (was owned by warner brothers and an independant developer team) so its possible this could happen again. In fact if anyone buys this it will probably be a sony like company that owns its own servers etc. The customer base (us) will follow plus others who are looking at what sony has to offer will subscribe when they see the 2 million titles that sony has to offer for its sony pass thingy. So its entirely possible and even likely that a large corporation with servers already running and staff in place who like what they see to take this on because in the end it wont cost them much more to run it and will add more customers

This won't hurt...much.

ummax wrote:yeah i know i said it Sony but that is about the only company that I can think of right now that does buy games in a bad financial state and makes them work (of course they also often fix them but uh yeah...)

I guess that depends on your definition of "work". Everyone I have talked to that ever played Matrix said that it was one of the worst pieces of crap game they have ever played. I could go on with reasons, as their opinions were backed up with specific examples, but it is not germaine to our conversation. Suffice it to say Matrix is just plain ole bad.

ummax wrote:think of matrix online , everquest and uh well there you have it.. examples of games that had problems that were bought up because the original owners didn't have the capital to keep it afloat any longer

SONY (and by the way, any other spelling is incorrect...ask anyone who works for SONY, it is always capitalized) did not buy Everquest. EQ was initially made under the auspices of 989 Games, a wholly owned subsidiary of SONY. As with many large corporations, it has companies within companies. EQ was hived off of 989 and placed under a new "sub-company", Verant Interactive. Verant then was subsumed back into the parent company, SONY, under the SONY Online Entertainment label. And EQ never "had problems". It is the great great great grandaddy of the successful 3D MMO (UO wasn't 3d, it was 3rd person isometric). After almost 8 years it is still running fairly strong. The ONLY game SOE has bought the rights to in a finished state, was Matrix. Please come up with another example, as the Matrix being bought by SOE is the only one I can think of...and that didn't turn out too well.

I still think that a profit center (the playerbase) that cannot support the cost center (the Nevrax debt), is not going to be a very tasty commodity on the market. I'm more than willing to be wrong, in fact, I hoping for it. Business today is all about the bottom line, and if a company cannot pay enough of its debt insomuch as it goes bankrupt, something is not right in the state of Denmark. For a game of this size and complexity, $589,000 per month is really not much, based on $14.95 per month at 40000 subs, considering costs such as server maint and upkeep, admisitrivia, and the biggest hitter...bandwidth.

cosmo365 wrote: I still think that a profit center (the playerbase) that cannot support the cost center (the Nevrax debt), is not going to be a very tasty commodity on the market. I'm more than willing to be wrong, in fact, I hoping for it. Business today is all about the bottom line, and if a company cannot pay enough of its debt insomuch as it goes bankrupt, something is not right in the state of Denmark. For a game of this size and complexity, $589,000 per month is really not much, based on $14.95 per month at 40000 subs, considering costs such as server maint and upkeep, admisitrivia, and the biggest hitter...bandwidth.

That's what your not understanding, they don't own the servers. They are not in charge of server maintenace, upkeep, or bandwidth costs. They use another company for that. That company being Jolt. Nevrax is the owner of Ryzom IP, they develop and publish the game.

You are new to the game so you aren't familiar with how the game was launched. At launch time they had another publisher, they had servers in the US as well as Europe. They had a contest to give away 40,000 dollars worth of video cards. All of these things built up huge debts for them. They never got the subscriber base needed to cover it.

Now all the severs are being hosted by another company. All in one place. They don't run expensive contests. They have a loyal fan base. Operations are much less costly now that they were back when the game started.

cosmo365 wrote: Please come up with another example, as the Matrix being bought by SOE is the only one I can think of...and that didn't turn out too well.

.

okay ncsoft ..
electronic arts
uh
should i keep going?

anyhow your a gloom and doom person and matrixonline worked for sony its actualy the only sony online game i play at the moment...

I bought the title BEFORE it was acquired by sony and still play it and I just pay my money to sony now

Anyhow you seem to have it all figured out (and by the not hurt me i meant the fact that I brought up the corporations name hehe).

lets see 4 servers for this game (which they probably already have) the game is already marketed and has an established client base. A friend of mine hopes ncsoft takes it on I dont because they totally mismanaged lineage 2 but to each his own. If the game gets bought up by any company I will follow the subscription there. I see no reason why you should think that no one wants it but anyhow such is life. Unless Nevrax is lying they already have interested parties and honestly the only companies I can see touching this would be sony, ncsoft and those types of companies etc.

Lastly Matrix online still was unfinished has a much smaller client base then this one and still runs today and has more servers then just the 2 it was purchased with so obviously it was of some financial benefit.

Anyhow we can hypothesize over this all day but to be honest the game is still running its a good game and a better game then matrix and guild wars and all those other games. (guild wars has no server fees how do they survive.. just some food for thought.. )

Please realize that a lot of games out there are now being moved to the guys who own servers. Its cheaper for them the creators get to manage their content still and they dont go belly up due to bankruptcy.

So i'm not sure why you dont think it wont work this time. This game works and its a good concept and it has an established client base what more can anyone want if they have the server space?

with regard to my spelling etc that is not needed in any post and not a measure of intelligence or anything else and taking swipes at people by the way they type or spell is well silly....

SONY involvement = bad. Got it?

Anything good this game has going for it would be wiped away if SOE got its hands on Ryzom.

Oh dear god. NCsoft will not have support really. I HATE NCsoft's GMs. None ingame really. Not to mention they have a Korean feel to them. Oh wait, they are! Their HQ is based in Korea. Just to name a few key points.

In all actuality, I'd rather have SOE than NCsoft.