The Kitin Lair – A Final Plea before it’s too late..

[zanthar]

I'm not sure what they can do with the stats to keep the loot items from causing crafters to lose business. If the loot drops are too limited in stats/quality, people won't really feel as though they have received a fair reward for the effort, if they are close... but not quite as good... as crafted gear, you will see people making do with the drops to save the dappers for other things. And, if the items are too good, obviously, crafters will be competing with missions.

It's a slippery slope, to introduce loot drops into Ryzom. I've already begun to question whether it's worth it to continue advancing my crafting skills, for if the economy swings the wrong way, I will be rather put out with all the wasted crafting time I could have used to level something else.

My heart sank when I first read there would be loot drops. The lack of loot drops was one of the initial appeals of Ryzom for me.

QFE!!!!! Devs please please don't put loot drops in the game! The player population, especially the crafters, will start to leave the game! I noticed that crafteers either re-speced to a different proffesion or left the game altogether in SWG after NGE hit, because the introduction of uber weapons and arnor that were better than could be crafted by the crafter population! If you want to put drops in put in crafting plans so the economy of the game does not stuffer! IMHO I think that there should be no drops implimented at all, just having the new area to play in is good enough or if you must add more plans, spells, combat moves, and harvesting skills to the trainers!

[iphdrunk]

Ok. Lets say I am a level 200 melee. I kill the boss and get awarded a new level 200+ craft plan and some new mats to use with it. I didn't train up my craft tree though. So now I have a reward that is of no use for me.

It is still a mat that can be used to craft, maybe not by yourself, but by a crafter. With missions allowing you to gather them as if you hunted a boss mob. Your not being able to directly craft it does not mean that it is of no use for you. Most crafters only ask for mats, and most are frustrated to say "sorry, I can craft it to you, but I don't have the mats for the weapon you want". And if the mat is "shaft" I can use it to craft the weapon I want, rather than "oups, I'm lvl 200 1h sword and this is a 2h sword".

This new area is for warriors, not for crafters. So the reward needs to be one that warriors will find useful, not crafters.

Afaik, all races have their goals in the Lair. There will be missions for all, maybe, but although it was true, saying that mats are only useful for crafters... crafters use them, but there may be other things involved, as trades, etc. I'm sorry I don't see your point. Boss mobs only drop mats now, and I won't say madakoo eyes, kirokya shafts and zun are useless to fighters.

[raynes]

It is still a mat that can be used to craft, allowing you to gather them as if you hunted a boss mob. Most crafters only ask for mats, and most are frustrated to say "sorry I can craft it to you, but I don't have the mats for the weapon you want". And if the mat is "shaft" I can use it to craft the weapon I want, rather than "oups, I'm lvl 200 1h sword and this is a 2h sword".

Afaik, all races have their goals in the Lair.

You are still restricting the reward to a crafting item. Why should the only rewards be crafting items?

[riveit]

This new area is for warriors, not for crafters. So the reward needs to be one that warriors will find useful, not crafters.

In many cases, the warriors and the crafters are one in the same (or guildmates). But if a non-crafting warrior came back with some supreme mat that is better than anything available now, the crafters would be scrambling to offer the warrior anything he or she wanted for it.

Of course, then the warrior would need to know who the correct crafters are - but that is good for the game.

[iphdrunk]

You are still restricting the reward to a crafting item. Why should the only rewards be crafting items?

I did not say that, at least not willingly (no need to quote me saying "rewards should only be mats to craft or crafted items" to prove your point, but if you could point where I stated that, I'd edit the post to make it clearer. Bear in mind tho, that my answers in the thread are in the context of the specific POLL question and yes, I'd rather have mats that crafted items.) On the contrary, to your question "Instead of being so against the idea of making hard work rewarding why not come up with some ideas of what they could do?" I answered "We have (at least myself, personally), in other threads".

My point is, simply put: "inappropriate (unbalanced, overpowered, exclusive, ....) dropped items can have a negative impact on a player based economy, reducing the ability and purpose of craters. In my opinion, other alternative methods (including rewards being mat based) are, IMHO more adapted to the game mechanics."

The purpose of this thread is not "discussing possible rewards" a dauting task in itself, including titles, Fame with the tribes most known for thier anti-kitin stance, etc, etc. your imagination can fly.

[zanthar]

You are still restricting the reward to a crafting item. Why should the only rewards be crafting items?

I think the best option for the kitin lair is for there to be no drops and it would be a fairly easy fix too! Highlight the script and hit delete! The appeal that brought me to this game 2 months ago was the the skill based play and non-existant drops! These little honeys are a major contributing factor to the utter destruction of the SWG economy and it will happen here too!

[rushin]

You are still restricting the reward to a crafting item. Why should the only rewards be crafting items?

read up! because drops kill crafting. the reason a huge proportion of us are here is because there are no (few) item drops. the need for crafters reinforces a community that actually communicates and interacts, not just random 'LFT' spam. This interaction drives the maturity of the community in many instances.

It underpins the fabric of Atys.

[rothimar]

What of the warriors who craft? I don't know too many people that don't do both. Afterall, a good amount of materials come from quartering hunted beasts. While you make a good point about non-crafters going without a reward, dropping gear... or mission rewarded gear... smells far too much like the economy crippling issues of EQ2.

That's the 3rd biggest reason I left EQ2. The first being bugs and downtime, the second being that EQ2 is WAY too much of a system resource hog. No game should lag THAT much when running more than min-sys-req's and graphic settings set to Nintendo.

(but I digress...)

Ok. Lets say I am a level 200 melee. I kill the boss and get awarded a new level 200+ craft plan and some new mats to use with it. I didn't train up my craft tree though. So now I have a reward that is of no use for me.

This new area is for warriors, not for crafters. So the reward needs to be one that warriors will find useful, not crafters.

[raynes]

I did not say that, at least not willingly (no need to quote me saying "rewards should only be mats to craft or crafted items" to prove your point, but if you could point where I stated that, I'd edit the post to make it clearer.

The purpose of this thread is not "discussing possible rewards" a dauting task in itself, including titles, Fame with the tribes most known for thier anti-kitin stance, etc, etc. your imagination can fly.

You said "It is still a mat that can be used to craft, maybe not by yourself, but by a crafter". If you are insisting that the reward be a mat, then you are limiting the award to a crafting only it. Sure you can argue that it can be indirectly useful to a warrior cause they can have someone make something with it. I could also then argue that a weapon would be useful to a crafter because they can have a warrior kill things for them.

As far as I can tell the purpose of this thread is "don't reward anything from the Kitin Lair, except mats". Which is absurd IMHO. It's narrowminded and really reduces the idea of making something like the Kitin Lair rewarding for any group except crafters. Crafting is an important part of the game, it is not THE GAME. People need to remember that.

read up! because drops kill crafting. the reason a huge proportion of us are here is because there are no (few) item drops. the need for crafters reinforces a community that actually communicates and interacts, not just random 'LFT' spam. This interaction drives the maturity of the community in many instances.

It underpins the fabric of Atys.

Did he armor that Aen and the other tribes drop kill the crafting comminuty? No, it's still there and thriving. Also how would a loot prize like a item that increases stats on weapons kill the crafting community? Or how would a consumable kill the crafting community?

[katriell]

Did he armor that Aen and the other tribes drop kill the crafting comminuty? No, it's still there and thriving.

Doesn't make it a good idea to put in more loot drops.