Ryzom

remyt wrote:Why did you choose the side you have choosen?

Reading the lore I agreed more with the Kami point of view. So I choose the Karavan

Be warned that you will be attacked on sight at either the Kami or the Karavan temples, depending on which side you have lower fame with. You can right-click on the panels from a safe distance to read them without getting too close to the guards.

remyt wrote:Hmm, if i say it like this.

Why did you choose the side you have choosen?
What do you think the other faction have that the second one don't have?


Edit: Also any links to more on the lore of the kamis and karas is very much appricated.

That's a personal answer, the guild voted kami for different reasons.
Story first as story - without being very much od a RPer - is important to me in a game:

I chose kami because we were supposed to chose between 2 religions. A religion needs to have a mystical part. There is nothing supranatural about karavan. They are talking about Jena, allright, but there is no testimony in the history as we know it of a contact between a known homin and this goddess.
On the other part the kami (not kamists) are supranatural, you can see them everywhere, at any kami teleport point as well as in kami protected tribes etc.

Secondly the promisses. Karavan are promising to transport us in another world, probably much better one. I am ready to believe their world is much better, usually better technology brings more welfare. But: why leave Atys, I love it. For my character leaving Atys would be a punishment not a reward.
Then what an atysian could do in a karavan world? They all have superiro forces? What could we be but slaves or at least a less developped, despised minority there?

Finally Faa somehow remembers the history of a forgotten planet long long way from Atys. Probaly some ancient thome she found in some basement in the library of the Pyr Academy. And she discovered a fundamental contradition. If the karavans have this best technology in the world and if they are also true to their word and want only the good for homins, why are they not sharing with them their science, why they are asking blind obedience and pretend they are giving them a religion instead simply make some schools and inarm the homiins followers with this great technology enabling them to terraform Atys and make it better. Kamis, on the other side just share some rather phylosophical principles, general ones, related to planet preservation. Like all known religions they have mysteries and rites, might be truly mystical ro just - like in so many cases - a way to consolidate the communtiy *shurg* at any rate they taught the people what they knew best: magic.

I just made mentally 2 columns with the 2 stories principal moments and compared them. There are other interesting stories that deserve attention, like the Elias Tryton one, of course, but not being implemented in game makes them difficult to follow for a whole guild.

The two columns can be questionned differently and get different answers too, for a lot of us loving the Medieval imagery it's nice to follow a powerful Lady. You'll find however as many opinions as people in game I guess.

That was my view on the story and it helped me vote for one religion/implemented faction. Led me also to the conveninet for me view taht no homin is guilty per se. The karavaneers are just people in error inside my RP line.

But of course comparing such a rich lore can lead you to very different conclusions, there is place for all on Atys.

arfindel wrote:Secondly the promisses. Karavan are promising to transport us in another world, probably much better one. I am ready to believe their world is much better, usually better technology brings more welfare. But: why leave Atys, I love it.

According to Karavan lore, the Karavan are promising to transport homins to another world to save them when Atys is inevitably destroyed in the awakening of the Dragon. It is not just a move to a better planet.

Not to quibble about your philosophy, but I see the Kamis are natural beings also. By the very fact of their day-to-day presence, they are 'natural' - a part of observed nature, to the homins. Jena, by her absence (although she supposedly appeared to King Zachini), is more supernatural than the Kamis.

One of the big differences between Kamism and Jenaism is that Jenaism respects homin freedom and existence as Jena's children. However, Kamism seeks to transform homins into Kamis. I see the Zorai masks as part of that transformation. Here is a section of Kamist Temple lore:

Zora Temple lore wrote:By following the pathways of Enlightenment, the faithful take the steps that lead to other dimensions. The homin who demonstrates sufficient merit reincarnates into another world as a Kami, until he is capable of attaining the supreme blissful state of Kami-Ko. At that stage, he enters into Kaminhood for all of eternity.

So, if you follow Kamism faithfully enough, you are headed to another world anyway!

Strange and eerie entities vs mysterious anthropoid beings....

Kami taught us magic. Praise Kami.

To me the karavan represent the future, the kami the past.

Both ask for devotion, the kamis lines are more simplistic both in philosopy and action much like a child with too much power. The Kami seek balance in the process deny homins their natural evolution and progress. I believe in truth they do not want atys changed and it would spell the end of their existance. This is somehow related to goo.

The kami approach to goo it to try to kill it, the Kami silan missions show the simplistic approach, by asking homins to kill the infected beasts. The Karavan approach to goo is analytical, for the same problem they seek research to study and solve it, a path more rational and ultimatly better for a solution to the goo.

I chose the Karavan a long time ago not for the religion, but for the politics and the core ideas the 2 sides represent.

To me the kami are very conservative and very closed, with very reactionary solutions (kami tolerance being the most noticable). Of homins they seek love, and use cute word and avatars to spread their rather basic concept of an unchanging Atys, one that would deny even the plants to evolve let alone the homins.

The Karavan to me are far more liberal and forward thinking, though presenting are darker, more hidden looking face. Their actions show a desire to help homins grow and develop, as well as protecting them from perils such as the Kitin. The fact that the karavan will seek to help homins made the choice of the sides very easy.

As for origins i believe the karavan created Atys, and the homins, the Kami i think were created with atys, a sort of intelligence of the 'green surge'. the goo i think is the breaking down of the miracle of life that created atys. Hence why the kami seek to stop it (as its their demise) and the karavan speak of a finite Atys (they know it won't last). The Dragon i think is a, myth an ideological figure to represent the finite life of the planet. Tryton i believe is a rogue karavan, wanting to tell the hard facts rather than muddling things with religion or having another agenda. The Kitin seem the true natives of Atys or some other aspect of the 'green surge', and i don't think the kitin are under the influence of any power save their own (and as much a threat to Atys as any homin growth from a kami Point of view)

Religion

pretty much the cause of all of earth and atys problems on earth i have nothing to do with it on atys the kami dudes look cool so i follow them

The Kami are peaceful respecters of the world we live in. They strive for balance and harmony, and the benefit of hominkind.

The Karavan destroy this world. They bring their guns, and their machines to pollute and cripple this wonderful world. They aspire to power, dominion, and ultimate submission of hominkind.

This is _completely_ unbiased.

*cough* *cough*

The eternal dapper. Accepted by Kami and Karavan alike this universally adored means of commerce is a delightful addition to any purse or wallet.

Oh, and you can spend it on all kinds of cool stuff.

larwood wrote:The Kami are peaceful respecters of the world we live in. They strive for balance and harmony, and the benefit of hominkind.

The Karavan destroy this world. They bring their guns, and their machines to pollute and cripple this wonderful world. They aspire to power, dominion, and ultimate submission of hominkind.

This is _completely_ unbiased.

*cough* *cough*

The Kami are fanatical gaurdians of the world they live in. They strive for balance and stasis, and would probably be happier without hominkind.

The Karavan modify this world. They bring their tools, and their machines to improve and benefit this wonderful world. They aspire to power, progress, and ultimate elevation of hominkind.

This is also_completely_ unbiased.

*cough* *cough*

The thing that got me, right back in the beginning, was the description of Kamis as shapeshifters who adopted forms suitable for convincing homins to follow them.
Straight away that tells me they are running a con-game, and only the gullible would be seduced by their ploys....

Nowadays, I beleive it is most important for Homins to look after their own interests, you would be foolish to follow either side blindly.

Initially I, non fanatically, followed the Kami out of grudging respect for their collectivist and Atys-preserving philosophy. The Karavan are mysterious but out-and-out exploitative and support slavers and goo worshippers, so they were never an option.

The Temples showed the Kami to be hypocrites however, supporting wholesale rape of the land simply to compete with the Karavan. Not good.

The Temples also showed Tryton to be rather weak and ineffectual as well, unfortunately, so that leaves me 'homin' aligned rather than anything else.