Ryzom

That was put pretty harshly... And I have to say... I agree with DT(I think that may be a first...) Even on the fame for the people you help part... "Neutral PvP tag" seems like somewhat of a oxymoron if you ask me... I think its ok as it is... A more important matter for them to *fix* I think would be a chat for the attacker/defenders at OP battles...I think it would be nice to be able to see the faction chat even when not tagged to... Even tho none of this currently effects me ... If/when I do start to play Ryzom again it would be nice to see these in effect.

[edit]- I get to stick around and read forums all day today cus my clutch broke on my car...yay -.-[/edit]

[edit]- To the below post... Why should Karavan get fame effects if Neutrals don't?

vguerin wrote:IMHO, everytime a neutral sides either way in an OP battle, they should get fame imposed on them according to the roles of the guilds holding the Outpost. When you are not playing neutral and merely claiming neutral, it should cost you in fame. You want the freedom to choose a side without the restrictions we get with only using a portion of the TP's available to a factionist.

That is really nonsense DT. Neutral doesn't mean pacifist automaticly. In Ryzom everything that is not Kami and not Karavan is called neutral. A bunch of mercenaries or a bunch of rogues are that for a reason. Mercenaries are for hire, and if a battle is over they can be hired for next, that is how it works.
Most of the time they fight on the side of the Kami, because the karavan never hires them. And be glad the Kami do, otherwise the karavan would have less opponents then they already have.

(Now if Karavan guilds help to defend a Kami OP, now that would be something to lose some kara fame for, I think.)

You've been ranting and raving about neutrals some time (and please keep doing it, it is amusing). But what is the problem? When I read them I wonder you do not like not to know where they stand. Neither black nor white...

about the PvP neutral tag. I think it would be a nice idea, but I have no clue how to fit it into the game. And neutrals shouldnt get more at the moment. According to the lore, Tryton is not powerful, and annoys the two real factions a bit, but is not (yet i hope) a real player.

What would the neutrals be fighting for?

How would it be different then what is already offered by either faction?


As a side note Jyudas has already described what faction the samasara lean and placed it in the official lore.

'The fearless leader of our mercenary band feels a little differently to me, most of us will side with the Kami when push comes to shove, of which I am sure you will approve, but it takes a little less shoving to make Kostika see their side."

http://chronicles.ryzom.com/?page=news& ... n=&id=1324

I think these links go bad when they update the chronicles, this comes from "A Tangled Web" currently on page 23.

Pero

danolt wrote:What would the neutrals be fighting for?

How would it be different then what is already offered by either faction?


As a side note Jyudas has already described what faction the samasara lean and placed it in the official lore.

'The fearless leader of our mercenary band feels a little differently to me, most of us will side with the Kami when push comes to shove, of which I am sure you will approve, but it takes a little less shoving to make Kostika see their side."

http://chronicles.ryzom.com/?page=news& ... n=&id=1324

I think these links go bad when they update the chronicles, this comes from "A Tangled Web" currently on page 23.

Pero

Consider the age of that post and how many in game years and events have passed since then eh? There's a good idea.

What would neutrals fight for? Well that depends on the neutral in question.

* Freedom from the Powers.
* Nationalism.
* Against expansionism or imperialism.
* For a few dappers more.
* Heretical religious belief.
* A free and fair prime roots.
* To 'take over' an area.
* To 'clip the wings' of fanatical followers of either side.

All manner of things.

Neutrals have lost access to all 250 areas and all access to the PR apart from via nexus and running to the portals.

I don't want to take part in factionalised PvP personally, but I think the option should be there. I don't really see why people object so strongly to neutrals having access to some sort of compensatory freedom or the capability to play to their role.

I would envision the potential neutral PvP tag as being one vulnerable to, and capable of smacking, both factions.

Another thing that should be done IMO would be restoring access to the 250 towns.

I agree though that actions in PvP should result in fame changes based on the fame of the people you kill, increases in the groups that hate them, decreases in the groups that love them. Minor changes considering how many kills can go off in battles but changes nonetheless.

And hey, if you don't like us fighting for the kami more often... *points at sig* the ball remains in your court.

Lore in games isn't a script to be slavishly followed, it's a context into which your character was born, a starting point from which to develop. The same way your reading of a certain poem might change according to your understanding of when it was written, or according to things that have happened to you providing different meaning.

EG: We started out sort-of Kami with a laissez fare/pragmatic attitude to their veneration (as per Fyros lore) while distrusting the Karavan due to their nature as described in the lore. Various events, most especially the temple event, showed the Kami to by hypocritical and the Karavan to be as bad, if not worse, than they'd already been painted prompting the shift to an even more neutral position. Development through experience.

grimjim wrote:Neutrals have lost access to all 250 areas and all access to the PR apart from via nexus and running to the portals.

Neutrals have only *lost* the TP(250 zone wise) to GoC that I know of(as pointed out to me by Keiko) You have not lost access to them... I used to run from HoP to void all the time.. everyone did... You did not lose access to void just because Kami/Kara were given TPs there. Now PR on the other hand I agree were lost... But you said "A free and fair prime roots." Its not under control of anyone as far as I know... Whats unfair about it? I hate that they changed TPs .. But they have... And for the way they changed it.. They gave people a reason to be faction aligned... If you could have everything as neutral why would anyone go Kami or Kara? It wouldn't make since to limit your self by doing missions over and over to go Kami/Kara if you can have everything as Neutral.

You (Jyudas) mentioned that neutrality encompasses many playstyles.

Only a few of which are significantly negatively affected by the teleport restrictions. Namely, those who frequently visit Grove of Confusion, and those who regularly hunt fancy bosses.

Yes, I left out PR foragers because it's not that freaking hard to run a few hundred meters (a few tens of meters in some cases) to a portal from a usable teleport.

The only thing that annoys me about the selection of available teleports is the swim to Avendale. But hey, I suppose it generally saves me money/time/effort because no other neutrals can reach Avendale either, hence there's less stock on their merchants and therefore less reason to go there.

katriell wrote:The only thing that annoys me about the selection of available teleports is the swim to Avendale. But hey, I suppose it generally saves me money/time/effort because no other neutrals can reach Avendale either, hence there's less stock on their merchants and therefore less reason to go there.

Well Jeez I am faction aligned and still can't TP to anywhere in tryker lands... And tryker lands are pretty much my faverite lands of all... I did all my hunting in Zoraï... but I liked visiting the tryker towns and hanging around in Tryker lands when I wasn't hunting(Love the landscape ). But now I rarely go anywhere but FH... And my faverite of all places... The place where I logged for the last time which takes a few min swim from the nearest TP. (nope not gonna give ya the Location )

raven41 wrote:Neutrals have only *lost* the TP(250 zone wise) to GoC that I know of(as pointed out to me by Keiko) You have not lost access to them... I used to run from HoP to void all the time.. everyone did... You did not lose access to void just because Kami/Kara were given TPs there. Now PR on the other hand I agree were lost... But you said "A free and fair prime roots." Its not under control of anyone as far as I know... Whats unfair about it? I hate that they changed TPs .. But they have... And for the way they changed it.. They gave people a reason to be faction aligned... If you could have everything as neutral why would anyone go Kami or Kara? It wouldn't make since to limit your self by doing missions over and over to go Kami/Kara if you can have everything as Neutral.

All level 250 TPs have gone. Not just one. Yes you can run up from other areas and sometimes that isn't a hassle, GoC is just the most annoying one.

Town access to the 250 trading areas is gone save in Fyros.

'A free and fair prime roots' was simply an example of a possible neutral goal, which could be envisioned as an 'anti pker' alliance to keep raiders of either side out of the territory. It was a 'for example'.

Why would anyone go Kami or Kara? For the same reasons people choose to play whatever they choose to play, RP, lore or the benefits of whichever. _Forcing_ people to make a choice isn't particularly kosher however. In time I suspect Kami and Kara will have rites, different but equal rewards and so forth. In the meantime the benefits are PR access, 250 zones, trade zones, higher fame possibilites and so on.

The difference would probably express itself as the difference between specialisation and jack-of-all-trades with neutral able to take a nibble of most things but only kami or kara being able to go the whole hog otherwise.

In the case of purely the PvP tag it would be simple enough, open aggressor, open to aggression. That's pretty balanced and limiting all by itself.

Which 250 zones did you have before there was Faction wars and new TPs? other then GoC.

This thread has become interesting, yet off topic. Why is it that whenever neutral options for pvp is discussed the subject always drifts to the "unfair treatment of neutrals" by the devs?

I mean it is a valid subject, any player concerns are valid- but PvP should be factional and neutrality should not be introduced as a default third faction. The existing Factions would not be running around agressively attacking the neutrals because thats not what they do. Why complicate matters and introduce even more ghosts to the machine? A simple temporary enemy flag for those moments when a neutral intervenes in factional business should suffice. The "penalties" for neutrality were put there for a reason. Simply stated, the devs WANT you to choose a side, if you decide not to choose a side that is within your right, but beware of the suspicious eye of the factions themselves.

With all that said there is always a place for those that decide not to choose a side, but its like a supporting actor in a movie...