Ryzom

Allow me to correct your statement to a more truthful one:

After being led to safety by the Karavan and Kami, the Fyros and Zorai choose to follow the Kami. The Tryker and Matis choose to follow the Karavan.

Read the lore again and you shall see our forefathers spoke only of the Karavan, my quote was direct from the lineage passed down to us all. The Kami did in fact aid in the kitin threat, but the Karavan solely led the Fyros and Zorai to their lands.

vguerin wrote:..but the Karavan solely led the Fyros and Zorai to their lands.

Yes, let us all be thankful they did... Just imagine they had not done that, they would be stuck in Matis or Tryker!

vguerin wrote:Read the lore again and you shall see our forefathers spoke only of the Karavan, my quote was direct from the lineage passed down to us all. The Kami did in fact aid in the kitin threat, but the Karavan solely led the Fyros and Zorai to their lands.

If you refer to what I think, it only mentions the karavan. But not in the way you say it does.

Zorai new beginning wrote:Resurfacing from Prime Root sanctuary after Karavan assurance that kitins no longer present a threat.

Fyros wrote:Resurfacing from Prime Root sanctuary after Karavan go ahead.

Tryker new beginning wrote:Resurfacing from Prime Root sanctuary after Karavan assurance that kitins no longer present a threat.

Matis new beginning wrote:Resurfacing from Prime Root sanctuary after King Yasson is given order by Karavan that kitins no longer present a threat.

So we have all four races in an agreement on how that happend. Now let's have a look at what else is said in the lore.

Lore story overview wrote:Many homins were able to escape through mysterious teleportation 'rainbows' leading to safe haven until these too were destroyed by kitins. Homins remaining in the infested lands could but flee into the wilds where they were forced to live nomadic lives in constant fear of kitin attack...

Then one day heroic travelers, bold as they were unexpected, came from afar in search of the surviving homin communities with a message : homin civilizations were being rebuilt in new lands of promise!

Young refugees in their droves have since been urged by their elders to risk the long and perilous journey to join the newly flourishing civilizations in the newfound lands. For great need there is for guilds, and homins eager to improve their skills and talents to help forge the destiny of their people. All hands are welcome, there is still much to do, and many a danger to overcome: kitins still patrol in the wilds, invasions still all too often occur; and many areas are beset by the pestilent Goo, a dreaded disease that ravages habitats and makes the wildlife rabid.

Lore story timeline wrote:2481 - 2483 : The Kitin War
In the year 2481, the kitins set out on a crusade to obliterate all traces of hominkind. Many homins were able to escape through the teleportation "rainbows" leading to safe haven in the Prime Roots of far away lands.
Kami and Karavan forces did their best to give homins safe conduct to the rainbows until these too were destroyed by kitins. Remaining homins could do nothing but flee into the wilds where they were forced to live nomadic lives in constant fear of kitin attacks. A Karavan task force was eventually sent in to counter the arachnid onslaughts. War ravaged in the ancient lands for many years until at last the kitins were forced to retreat back into the depths of Atys.

Interesting is it not, we now have several things that happend to the homins. And not one of them have the karavan as the sole guide to the new lands.
Instead we have the kami and karavan working together and the homins helping each others and themselves.
I am sure that if I missed anything that you can point to the right place in the lore, since we are on a quest for truth.

sx4rlet wrote:Yes, let us all be thankful they did... Just imagine they had not done that, they would be stuck in Matis or Tryker!

Heh, I would love to have been stuck in Tryker land, such lovely and freeminded homins. Why the Trykers and Zorai in the past never became friends is beyond me.

magick1 wrote:Why the Trykers and Zorai in the past never became friends is beyond me.

Possibly the following....

Tryker views on civilisation wrote:How they see the Zoraïs
The Trykers distrust the Zoraï mystics who openly transgress Jena Law by venerating the Kamis. What is more, during past troubles in the old lands with the Matis, the Zoraïs refused to let their forefathers cross the great Zoraï wall into the jungle lands to flee Matis swords. A similar thing happened during the Great Swarming when the Zoraïs closed their frontiers and let many thousands of Trykers perish in the jaws of the kitins.

and more...

Tryker views on civilisation wrote:Although the Zoraïs have opened up since the exile in the Prime Roots, the Trykers still bear a grudge against Zoraïs' deliberately turning their forefathers away in their time of greatest need. More recently, it was the Zoraïs, under Fung-Tun in 2504, who first installed slavery in the new lands, which Trykers strongly oppose.

Not what you'd call cozy and a happy past.

tylarth wrote:Not what you'd call cozy and a happy past.

Indeed, but I don't still understand why. Maybe it is because I am predisposed to likeing all homin races, and forgot the reasons of olde on this topic.

Why it happend, not why the Trykers don't trust Zorais. That part is plain enough.

tylarth wrote: Possibly the following....

Originally Posted by Tryker views on civilisation
How they see the Zoraïs
The Trykers distrust the Zoraï mystics who openly transgress Jena Law by venerating the Kamis. What is more, during past troubles in the old lands with the Matis, the Zoraïs refused to let their forefathers cross the great Zoraï wall into the jungle lands to flee Matis swords. A similar thing happened during the Great Swarming when the Zoraïs closed their frontiers and let many thousands of Trykers perish in the jaws of the kitins.

and more...

Originally Posted by Tryker views on civilisation
Although the Zoraïs have opened up since the exile in the Prime Roots, the Trykers still bear a grudge against Zoraïs' deliberately turning their forefathers away in their time of greatest need. More recently, it was the Zoraïs, under Fung-Tun in 2504, who first installed slavery in the new lands, which Trykers strongly oppose.

Not what you'd call cozy and a happy past.

I'll have to disagree with both you and the lore you quoted Tylarth.. Firstly Trykers used to be followers and friends of the Kami, way back before the swarming..

Secondly whether the Zorai closed their walls or not during the Great Swarming is completely irrelevant as they were battleing hordes of kitin at the same time we were. So any Tyrkers who ran to Zorai to escape were just running into another battle, if they could even had reached there...

I've never heard this bit about Zorai slavery and have never seen any Zorai slavers connected with Zora. They may have tried it, i have never heard of any tryker slaves to Zorai..

So although they are a strange bunch, those Zorai, the current views are entirely political, and possibly jealousy that the Kami went to the Zorai and not us Trykers after the Swarming.

I think this thread is completely off-topic now... We've got major issues to take care of, don't you think so?

First of all, as a follower of Ma-Duk and the kamis, i find it confusing what the Guild of Elias is trying to tell us.... a power greater than the actual kami or karavan's? Why are kami and karavan so deep into the prime roots?

And most interesting... why does karavan try so desperately to keep all homins out of the depths? Not only we've been warned, but also threatened by them, which imho is unacceptable.

It's indeed very probable that we are the cause of the kittin threat, but we're already fighting the toughest war agains them, and i don't see the point on criminalizing those who try to help in any way trying to investigate further on the kittins, and the most coherent reaction would be that kamis and karavans tried to help us on those expeditions, no matter the cost, and even with most effort if they're already down there.

@seawe What?? there is misinformed and then there is not acknowledging the lore that has been there since i stated the game just after release. Trykers have had no major contact with Kamis, they venerate Jena, their prohibitions effectivly outlaw the kamis, The zorai are the only civilisation to have adopted slavery post exile, the matis were forced to give up slavery by the karavan some 200yrs ago (Zachini's rule, also the founding of Karavia and meeting of karavan + matis - A little lore at bedtime).

The zorai civilisation of old was isolationist and kami, no other civilsation really even know of the kami, the matis and tryker following jena and the fyros being largely athiest or just merely rejecting karavan authority/law, turning only to the kami after discovering 'secrets' of the karavan post exile.

back to more relevant affairs

Kitin were happily dwelling in the root undisturbed since homin civilization (and history) began, it only due to fyrosian disregard of jenite laws that they went delving into the roots, result being end of civilizations as we knew it. So if it thats 'unacceptable' threat to prevent further annihilation of the homin species then i really cannot see any issue here.

And what is in the roots of power? 1. the dragon 2. whatever devices/remains were used to defeat the dragon 3. possibly whatever was used to create the green surge 4. Kitins.

Thus Elias Tryton and his guild were seeking forlorn fast route to power, at the potential cost of another Great Swarm (and his guild), i have no sympathy for them and now consider their allies just as foolish, If the rangers are such adversaries and experts on the Kitin why did they support this effort?

I imagine the various high level (leaders) political activity is a direct cause of the elias/ranger affair, and are preparing for the worse possible outcome.

rheda wrote:And most interesting... why does karavan try so desperately to keep all homins out of the depths? Not only we've been warned, but also threatened by them, which imho is unacceptable..

The actual commandment states:

You shall not descend into the bowels of Atys lest the holy light leaves your heart, and the Dragon's darkness devours your soul

It does not state you can not go, it just informs us that the individual consequences will be very harsh.

The kitin attacking are an entirely different matter. Perhaps they are still a bit upset over the fire from the last time Homins ventured into the depths. Surely, they suffered significant casualties. Perhaps they don't want to get burned, again.

One other interesting point since the roots continue to grow as each new "level" is encapsulated in a canopy of vegetation, what is considered "bowels"? Is that pre Homin occupation of Atys? How far down is to far? How deep is it before Jena can not retrieve a soul and the dragon gets a snack?

I think I'll wait until she tells us, instead of trial and error. There is no technology, knowledge or treasure that is worth the soul of any Homin.

Pero