Ryzom

kovah wrote:I don't understand all this. You have the option to participate or not. If you are going to stand around or have an out of body experience while you are "hostile" then you should expect to come back at the closest respwn point.

It all sounds like typical Matis snobbishness to me...

/shrug

The notice is plain and simple. Come in peace, or do not come to our city.

If you do not come in peace we will ensure that you do not stay. This act is to ensure the safety of our citizens. We are pursuing no one.

I have 0 intention of ever visiting Yrkanis. If I did, I certainly wouldn't walk into town with weapons drawn.

What I'm failing to understand here is that you claim that you need to protect your citizens, what do your guards do? Has the Karavan stopped resurrecting you folks? Why do you feel the need to protect those that are foolish enough to remain hostile while not paying attention to the world around them?

You say that the Kamists just need to disarm before entering your city and that's all fine and good, but what are the actual consequences for any Karavaneer that gets "killed" by someone? What are you actually going to prove by killing any Kamist that approaches Yrkanis with weapons drawn?

I would think that actions like these would do more to provoke harm to your citizens.

kostika wrote:This still doesn't answer my question about condemning a while faction for a few bad apples. Each side has bad apples. I'm sure you wouldn't wish to be descriminated against, so why should you (as in the Karavan) discriminate against others for a few bad people.

Actually 2 of my posts have answered your question:

1. Condemning the individuals just leads to threads filled with anger and hostility because it becomes something like this:

"you killed a crafter"
"they killed me earlier in a completely unrelated situation"
"well you're a big poopie-head"
...
and then it gets nasty. We've all the seen the name-calling threads. Not interested in playing that game.

2. We are not condemning the entire faction. To be honest, we are not "condemning" anyone. We are saying that Kamists will enter Yrk disarmed (tags off) or not at all. Simple. Non-aggressive.

(OOC) Think of it like guns in the real world. Out on the ranch in Texas, carrying a sidearm might be perfectly legal. Walking into downtown London on the other hand, it's not. Doesn't matter what your intent is or whether you've ever shot a person before. The police just aren't going to allow it. Since we don't have prisons, we have to enforce this the only way the game allows.(/OOC)

kostika wrote:This still doesn't answer my question about condemning a while faction for a few bad apples. Each side has bad apples. I'm sure you wouldn't wish to be descriminated against, so why should you (as in the Karavan) discriminate against others for a few bad people.

That's be like me hating all of Evolution because Sxarlet called me a meanie pants.

Mind you I only ask out of curiousity. I would like all cities to be peaceful, but I'm unsure this is the best route to that.

ooc:
this post and my last are both completely IC.

In this sort of a situation it is nearly impossible to know who those bad apples are. Sure, we all know a few of them, but there are new people every day. Doubletap's declaration is perfectly reasonable. Nobody is in so much of a hurry to go to the opposite faction's town that they don't have time to turn off a PVP flag. For that matter, the chances of their being attacked anyplace but the stables is pretty slim.

The fact is, if you see this as anything but justice served, then the whole thing probably does not apply to you, and you are most likely looking at it from an entirely different perspective. I can tell you for sure that the Kami supporters who come to Yrkanis every day looking to stir up a storm know exactly why we are doing this and I highly doubt they question it at all. What we are doing will most likely only affect your aforementioned "bad apples" and honest, fun-loving homins like yourself probably have nothing to worry about.

oldmess wrote:
(OOC) Since we don't have prisons, we have to enforce this the only way the game allows.(/OOC)

"drop your gun or i'll pull out my gun?" ¬.¬ sounds a little hypocritical - since this is a war. you can say that Yrkanis is your land, but you have to be able to defend it against persistant Kamis (which are seriously starting to get out of hand)

however, if everyone thinks thisll make peace - i'm not gonna stop it from happening. but if this means everyone is going to close down their borders, then this can go WAY out of hand. if or when it does, i'll be around to fight this law.

and as for the Poor Lass, last i checked Armed folks where forbidden to attack those that were unarmed.. how then did she die? unless she was carrying a weapon herself? *confused*

OOC:: if your tagged, you should be ready to die. if your afraid of ppl coming and killing you, TAKE OFF YOUR TAGS it only takes a few minutes unless u've just come out of a battle.

i will never have a problem with this as i am and will be neutral as long as possible. i have no tags, i have no problems - you need to stop blaming the Kami and start blaming yourselves for bieng tagged.

loool

this can't be sirieus lol,
well do what u want.. i won't leave yrk for such lil thing lol.. u rly think this well happen? u mostly die in 2 cast so u must have a *big* army there

i mostly hope this will happen.. maybe there's some more fun in ryzom then.

well like u always said when there's trouble .. "school is out?"i think its my turn to say it now lol
well have fun and DT .. goodluck on school.. hope you get good marks
cos on ryzom u don't



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kovah wrote:What I'm failing to understand here is that you claim that you need to protect your citizens, what do your guards do? Has the Karavan stopped resurrecting you folks? Why do you feel the need to protect those that are foolish enough to remain hostile while not paying attention to the world around them?

(OOC) Yrk guards are racial and not faction based guards. i.e. they'll KoS anyone that has a -50 or lower Matis fame, but that's it. Your guards in Zora will do the same thing. No more. So bringing up a game mechanic that doesn't do what you think it should is just a distraction.(/OOC)

Resurrection? Are you kidding? You think we shouldn't protect our friends because the doctor will fix their wounds? That's just ridiculous. Do you ever heal someone even if they aren't in mortal peril? Why? Time will do it for you.

And then my favorite line: "those ... foolish enough to remain hostile...". Blaming the victims because they wanted to feel safe in their home town? Nice. Well, we Karavan don't blame the victims; we protect them.

kovah wrote:What are you actually going to prove by killing any Kamist that approaches Yrkanis with weapons drawn?

This has nothing to do with proving anything. We are going to protect those who need it in the city and that's that. Simple. Making more out of it than that is just silly.

kovah wrote:I would think that actions like these would do more to provoke harm to your citizens.

Protecting ourselves provokes harm? They must teach an awfully messed up logic class in Zora elementary school. If you were going to argue that attacking on OP somewhere would provoke the Kamists, you might be right. But the notion that a defensive-only policy will provoke someone is ludicrous; unless that person was looking for an excuse to be provoked anyway.

thlau wrote:OOC
I hear every time the argument 'With the new timeout for switching off the PvP timer'. Can someone explain me the difference from the Kamis visitor to a Karavaneer crafter? If you don't like to be killed while crafting with supreme mats, switch of the PvP flag (it only takes 30 seconds).
/OOC

Simple. One is a homin in his home town and the other is in an enemy town. If I wander into Zora and nuke a crafter, I'm not about to blame him for having his tags up. He's in his own home.

(OOC) I'm kinda amazed at some of OOC criticism of this clearly IC policy. We're trying to add a layer of RP and reason to PvP. Why is that wrong? And don't tell me why PvP is wrong; if you feel that way, you wouldn't turn your tags on anyway and this becomes irrelevant.(/OOC)

I heard your threat against the kamist atysians, and in my opinion do what ever you want in verdant heights. I hope you will think twice before extending the Shielding Act to Aeden Aqueous.

A. It's not a threat against all of the Kamists; it's a statement that if you come into town with violence in your heart, violence you shall rec'v. Since a single blast is all it takes to down a crafter or afk person, we can't wait for the attacks to come. The only way to judge your heart is how you are armed (tags).

B. Extending this to the lakelands would only happen if we were asked. As far as I'm aware this problem of attacking defenseless citizens in their home town has not occurred in Fairhaven to a large degree. If it is happening and the citizens there wish to protect themselves, I would certainly honor that wish and aid them as needed. If not, then that's their choice.

kuroari wrote:but if this means everyone is going to close down their borders, then this can go WAY out of hand. if or when it does, i'll be around to fight this law.

We're not closing our borders, so you can stop over-dramatizing this. We're stating that armed, hostile, Kamists will not be allowed in Yrk unless they disarm. That's it. Disarm and you're welcome.

kuroari wrote:you need to stop blaming the Kami and start blaming yourselves for bieng tagged.

We should stop blaming the attackers and we should blame the victims? Right. Thanks for the suggestion, but we're gonna take a pass on that idea.

Say what you will about your defensive stance, but let it be known that the same will apply to all Karavan entering any Kami aligned city- just as you have been attacked by Kamist extremists, so have other innocent Kami been attacked by Karavan terrorists. We will no longer stand for it.

darylq wrote:Say what you will about your defensive stance, but let it be known that the same will apply to all Karavan entering any Kami aligned city - just as you have been attacked by Kamist extremists, so have other innocent Kami been attacked by Karavan terrorists. We will no longer stand for it.

OK. Just a quick question since your declaration is so brief. The Yrkanis act is limited to Yrkanis at the moment and may possibly be extended to the other forest towns if problems occur there. Your statement seems to indicate that all Zorai and Fyros based towns will be affected. Is this correct?