Ryzom

I am just being selfish Kos because I can see the possibility of situations occuring where I would have to shoot at neutrals and I dont like doing that.

norvic wrote:I am just being selfish Kos because I can see the possibility of situations occuring where I would have to shoot at neutrals and I dont like doing that.

Only if you attacked one of the alliance Outposts or that of one of the other neutral guilds.

calel wrote:If that would be the case then all Karavan guilds are basically breaking one of their commandments when they recruit new arrivals from the refugee islands since those are all faction neutral. So I' d say that' s a pretty big misconception.

Well it just goes to emphasise the fact that 'Neutral' is a complicated concept, one I think a lot of us (players and Devs) have not fully considered.

It wouldn't be the first Karavan commandment broken by their followers ("Don't enter the Prime Roots" for example). Just goes to prove the Karavan's wrongness.

Besides which, I see new players more as undecided rather than truly neutral.

oldmess wrote:Healers in Ryzom are not after-the-fact medics that show up to mend wounds and provide humanitarian aid. They are active participants in the battle. I'm sure you're aware of this: if you heal during a pvp battle, you're as much a legitimate target as any meleer or elementalist.

That's the same attitude the mobs give you; if you heal someone while they attack a plod, he considers you as much a target as the attacker.

Actually, a bit more so in a tactical sense, because once the healers drop, the fight is mostly over.

If you accept that, then welcome to the fight, mate. If not, you might want to rethink that position.

Just adds to the reasons I hate PvP mate - I'd prefer to be able to heal both sides.

Having said that, if my guild or its allies are attacked, I will defend the only way I am prepared, which is to heal.

philu wrote:
It wouldn't be the first Karavan commandment broken by their followers ("Don't enter the Prime Roots" for example). Just goes to prove the Karavan's wrongness.

I agree that's been muddy waters for some time, and it seemed very clear in the lore and commandements, buuut, it has been stated in several events, NPC chars etc that this commandment only applies to the inner parts of the roots, which remain as of now, closed.

You just need to create a new toon in tryker land, and do the initial missions, even one NPC explains this carefully, so no confussion (a Tryker trainer, iirc)

philu wrote:Well it just goes to emphasise the fact that 'Neutral' is a complicated concept, one I think a lot of us (players and Devs) have not fully considered.

It wouldn't be the first Karavan commandment broken by their followers ("Don't enter the Prime Roots" for example). Just goes to prove the Karavan's wrongness.

Besides which, I see new players more as undecided rather than truly neutral.

Your facts are as weak as your RP stance. The Karavan stance concerning the Prime Roots is : The homins are forbidden to descend underground in quest of the dragon's lair for fear of stirring its wrath.

Nothing more, nothing less... we are venturing underground for proper gear.

This alliance is a hypocracy because certain guilds refuse to call themselves Kami... Might be time for those you oppose to see how neutral things are...

OOC:It's no wonder Nevrax cannot do more for neutrals... When neutrals become combatants allied with a faction and still call it neutral... Oii... When neutral is less generic they might have something to work with. Right now neutral doesn't mean the same to many folks.
/OOC

calel wrote:If that would be the case then all Karavan guilds are basically breaking one of their commandments when they recruit new arrivals from the refugee islands since those are all faction neutral. So I' d say that' s a pretty big misconception.

There's a commandment that prevents me from recruiting someone?!? Please quote this for me as I must not have read the lore deeply enough. I don't see how it makes any sense unless the Karavan are telling us to lose because all new players are defaulted to neutral.

So, by your logic, the Karavan will never grow.

oldmess wrote:There's a commandment that prevents me from recruiting someone?!? Please quote this for me as I must not have read the lore deeply enough.

No, the statement itself (I thought it was a commandment, my mistake, it' s a fragment of the Flanagan Files) does not forbid to recruit. However it wouldn' t make sense to go in against these as they are some of the fundaments of the Jenaït faith.

The Flanagan Files wrote: Goals :
- Oppose the Kamis and prevent the worship of Elias Tryton from spreading

Destabilizing factors
- Elias Tryton, who first appeared during the darkest hours of the Kitin invasion, could well turn many homins away from the Jena faith.

Hence it would be ridiculous for Karavan Guilds to activly recruit new players that are indeed by default neutral if one asumes faction neutrals are all to be considered Trytonists.

oldmess wrote: I don't see how it makes any sense unless the Karavan are telling us to lose because all new players are defaulted to neutral.

So, by your logic, the Karavan will never grow.

Exactly, that was the point. It would make no sense.

norvic wrote:The OP battle at Berello Gorge, is a pretty good example of a battle aided by faction allies on both sides without complications.

Unfortunatly I wasn't involved, so I don't know what started it, or what happened.

norvic wrote:If a similar Battle was to occur involving one of the Kami guilds in your alliance Mio. you say you "would" defend therefore this goes abit against "weighing each situation on its merits" which is more how i see a neutral guild funtioning.

We're in a defensive alliance with them, so obviously the default position is to go to their aid. It makes no difference to me if they're Kami, Karavan or neutral. The only reason I can think of that might make me stop is if they've brought the attack on themselves through attacking other guilds.

norvic wrote:My original posting was not ment as any slur on your Alliance btw just that it is a little different to my idea of neutral.

No offense taken. Neutral is a broad category. Speaking only for myself (IC), I'm neutral because I'm a pro-Tryker and pro-homin before I'm pro or anti either of the two religions. I find myself fighting on the Kami side even though I know little of Ma Duk, and care little for whatever he teaches. But I havn't seen any Kami attack any homin up to now (except when they're over digging), and until I do I can't believe they deserve being wiped out as Jena and the Karavan propose to do.

calel wrote:Hence it would be ridiculous for Karavan Guilds to activly recruit new players that are indeed by default neutral if one asumes faction neutrals are all to be considered Trytonists.

That's a big *if*. I'm Karavan because I *chose* to be Karavan. Not because of anyone's assumption. Neutrals are only Trytonists if they choose to be Trytonists. New players are not Trytonists unless they tell me otherwise. If they did, I would respect their right to be Trytonists even if think they are wrong.

- Oppose the Kamis and prevent the worship of Elias Tryton from spreading

To be honest, I don't think this statement prevents me from attempting to recruit even an avowed Trytonist. In fact, I would argue it compels me to attempt to show that person the rightness of the Karavan way and convert them. That would reduce the number of Trytonists. What better way to prevent that worship from spreading than to convert a follower?

Of course, after Tryton's foolish statement that neutrals should support both sides in the recent temple building, I don't know too many that are active Trytonists anymore.