Ryzom

andter wrote:Well he agreed that the title could be misleading, but said that it had nothing at all to do with slavery!

Very well, if Glenn is not actually a slave, I have no quarrel with Hebre. He should be aware of the history of slavery and the opposition to it in the Lakelands. I have raised the issue of slavery in Hebre's presence on Region chat, receiving no answer, and here in this forum.

andter wrote:So I just wonder Riveit, it just seems to me that you aren't brave enought to ask a friendly homin a simple question. If you aren't brave enought to ask, how can you think people will belive that you are able to lift your sword against another homin?

What is your name on Atys? I do not recall meeting any homins named Andter.

OOC: OK, it was unfair of me to denounce Hebre even in an rp mode without discussing it with him first. I'm sorry for doing that and I apologize to Hebre. I'll try restrain my rp in the future to those more obviously engaged in rp.

riveit wrote:OOC: OK, it was unfair of me to denounce Hebre even in an rp mode without discussing it with him first. I'm sorry for doing that and I apologize to Hebre. I'll try restrain my rp in the future to those more obviously engaged in rp.

Amen, It takes a big person to admit when they are wronge, Well done Riveit

Quotes about Slavery in the Lakelands from the Lore:

http://www.ryzom.com/?page=lore_races_t ... ces_tryker

We Trykers live by the virtues of freedom, equality and sharing. We believe all homins are equal and should live and let live. ...

If you believe in a world without tyranny or intolerance, with neither masters nor slaves, come help us build it!!

What we value most ?
To be a true Tryker, you gotta live by the virtues of freedom, equality and sharing :
- Freedom : Consider all homins responsible and free of their acts. Any homin violating the freedom of another will be in breach of the Homin Rights Act, which as it happens, was first drawn up by the Tryker Council.
- Equality : Every homin has an equal right to walk the land, to obtain instruction, to harvest the natural resources, to choose their own destiny, as long as they don't encroach on other homin rights.


http://www.ryzom.com/?page=lore_races_t ... ces_tryker

2507
Homin Rights Act drawn up by Tryker Council to combat slave trade.

2518
Ratification of Homin Rights Act by four peoples.


http://www.ryzom.com/?page=lore_story_short5

T'was indeed sad times that befell our fathers. Well, after ploughing his way through water route villages and outposts, razing everything in his path, the dark Duke, Gioni di Tylini sent an ultimatum at our mountain gates for us to lay down our arms or have our wives and children cut to the marrow. Well, true to our life-loving spirit and always quick to adapt to a tricky situation, the Tryker tribal chiefs thought it best to stay with the livin' so as to fight another day!

That notwithstanding, though, many a Tryker took their chances in the hills that backed onto the great impassable wall of the Zorai. But once the Matis closed in on them they were like sitting game for the picking and the Matis made examples out of most of them.

We were herded off like yelks in our thousands, driven to the Matis territories where we were divided up and dispatched over the lands. We were set to hard labor making arms and general skivvying for over fifty days and fifty nights till the answer to our prayers came, not from the sky but from underground : Loria and her company of intrepid Trykers were to change our way of thinking, and bring out our true colors in a way that we would never have dreamed...

Homins,

Following a question in last night's Karavan conference the representatives of the Karavan side have this to say regarding slavery:-

QUESTIONS & ANSWERS ABOUT THE SLAVERS TRIBE

Why does this tribe remain in the lakes?

Tribes are not under the control of the homin governments, which have no means to patrol all the surface of their territory. Priority is accordingly given to the surveillance of the urban regions, such as Liberty Lake. The remote regions are not so secure, and it is possible for enemy tribes to become established there.

As regards the Slavers tribe, expeditions to wipe them out have already organized by the Tryker Federation. They scattered the Slavers and arrested their leader. Regrettably, this did not prevent the tribe from regrouping a short time later with a new leadership. Certain Trykers dignitaries think that Slavers may have support from within the government, but no proof has ever been discovered to confirm these charges.

Why is this tribe protected by the Karavan? Does the Karavan allow the slavery?

The Karavan does not advocate slavery, on the contrary. Let us remember that it is the goddess Jena who in ancient times ordered the Matis to release Trykers from their subjection.
Nevertheless, the Karavan leaves free will to all Homins, in particular when not concerning religion. The Karavan is not responsible for decisions of the Homin governments or for the behavior of any tribes.

The Karavan condemns the traffic in which the Slavers are engaged, but cannot allow the members of this tribe turning to the Kamis. In spite of the crimes of which he may be guilty, no Homin must be abandoned to these devils. So the Karavan tolerates the obnoxious business of Slavers, although they would infinitely prefer that the tribe turns its mind to another business.

Why are the Matis allied to this tribe?

Officially, king Yrkanis and his subjects are not allied to the Slavers. Nevertheless, it is true to say that certain elements of Matis society considers slavery as something natural, an influence of the strong over the weak found in natural selection. These same Matis obviously count Trykers as " lower people ". Furthermore, the Slavers tribe is largely made up of Matis and so blood relationships exist with Matis back home This must explain the excellent reputation which they have, this reputation reflecting the reality of the situation and not any public rhetoric.
King Yrkanis is personally against any form of slavery. Any official business is forbidden in the Matis kingdom, and he fully respects the charter of the Rights of the Homin.

Tidings wrote:As regards the Slavers tribe, expeditions to wipe them out have already organized by the Tryker Federation. They scattered the Slavers and arrested their leader. Regrettably, this did not prevent the tribe from regrouping a short time later with a new leadership. Certain Trykers dignitaries think that Slavers may have support from within the government, but no proof has ever been discovered to confirm these charges.

This does not excuse a lack of persistent action or investigation on this matter.

Tidings wrote:The Karavan does not advocate slavery, on the contrary. Let us remember that it is the goddess Jena who in ancient times ordered the Matis to release Trykers from their subjection. Nevertheless, the Karavan leaves free will to all Homins, in particular when not concerning religion. The Karavan is not responsible for decisions of the Homin governments or for the behavior of any tribes.

The free will of the slaves is impinged is it not? The Tryker are Karavan supporters in the majority are they not? Allowing these slavers to continue is favouring the Matis people over the Tryker and allowing their freedom to be taken from them.

The Karavan is also expecting and all but demanding loyalty in any coming hostilities while pushing their allies towards hostilities. It seems the Karavan agenda here is somewhat confused, neh?

Tidings wrote:Officially, king Yrkanis and his subjects are not allied to the Slavers. Nevertheless, it is true to say that certain elements of Matis society considers slavery as something natural, an influence of the strong over the weak found in natural selection. These same Matis obviously count Trykers as " lower people ". Furthermore, the Slavers tribe is largely made up of Matis and so blood relationships exist with Matis back home This must explain the excellent reputation which they have, this reputation reflecting the reality of the situation and not any public rhetoric.

By refusing to enforce on this issue the Karavan is tacitly approving of slavery.
By failing to crack down on it the Matis are showing just how they view their relationship with their Tryker slaves... oh, sorry, I mean 'allies'.

Tidings wrote:King Yrkanis is personally against any form of slavery. Any official business is forbidden in the Matis kingdom, and he fully respects the charter of the Rights of the Homin.

I'm sure the hominist conference delegates will be delighted to hear that and look forward to his speech condemning the current moves to war on that basis, as well as his actions against the slavers. Unless Matis noble blood excuses slavery somehow? What else does it excuse?

Tidings wrote:Homins,

Following a question in last night's Karavan conference the representatives of the Karavan side have this to say regarding slavery:

...

Thank you for the answers -- I wasn't expecting a such fast response to be honesta, Jena's fleet must be really close if communication is so fast. (( gj Nevrax! -- pleasantly surprised ))

I think I can now see why the Karavan supports that tribe. I understand the thoughts behind it... but I can't agree with them

*sigh* I better go and have a drink in Windermeer's bar that calms my spirit. At the moment only the feelings of sadness, anger and betrayal are filling my hart... better think about things...

It seems the hominist view breaks down the fullness of the picture to quote and utilise only the comments that can support their arguements. Your motives however well intended, provoke antagonism and hostility, something not condusive to a peace fostering and the non-aggressive stance of the charter, to which you signed.

To those who dedicate to one of the faiths, it is the duty of that faith to honour their followers with the service they provide equally to all. For the Karavan to impose itself on the freedom of activity of this tribe, then that is a mandate to impose on the current freedoms of other tribes and guilds. In essence accepting the faiths, as i'd assume you'd include the Kami also, to dictate over homin laws and culture, rather than remain neutral to homin practices and focus on matter of faith.

tylarth wrote:Your motives however well intended, provoke antagonism and hostility, something not condusive to a peace fostering and the non-aggressive stance of the charter, to which you signed.

The charter itself included much about the freedom of the slaves, being hominist is far from being neutral.

grimjim@1st Hominist Conference Charter wrote:
Article 1 - Aims of the Hominist Movement
----------------------------------------
1c) To seek peace, prosperity and freedom for all homin of Atys.

1st Hominist Conference Appeals
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4 - Give the involvement of various people and factions within the Slaver's camp in Bounty Beaches we ask that Emperor Dexton, King Yrkanis and a spokesmen for the Karavan all publicly condemn the act of enslavement.
5 - We also call upon the Karavan to remove their support and assistance from the Slaver bandits, to no longer watch over them or to resurrect them so that they might be removed from the land and the slaves freed. We ask Emperor Dexton and King Yrkanis to provide troops to eradicate the slavers and free their chattel.
6 - We request that the best medical minds of the Karavan, the Fyros and the Matis be made available to care for the freed brainwashed slaves.
7 - We ask that an investigation be made into the market to which these slaves have been sold and that the guilty be punished.

was with reference to this part of the charter.


"Article 4 - Hominist Conduct
---------------------------
Signatories of the Hominist Charter undertake to fight only defensively to protect their person, their property, their homeland, their family and those things they hold dear. They will not be the source of aggression."