Ryzom

scarazi wrote:hehe true, i`ll edit b4 he see`s

haha *hugs*

Having some extra protection value hardly makes a q250 better than Aen armor. In fact, because your protect percentages are going to be lower, you will actually take more damage with a high-protection set than with an Aen set (particularly in PvP, where a player would have to do about 2000 damage per hit to make that extra protection worthwhile. And it is useless against piercing weapons anyhow). A max-protect set might possibly be better against bosses, but even then healers are likely to be "topping you off" anyhow, and the efficiency of the slight damage reduction will be next to nil given the overheals. Outside of bosses and certain very hard-hitting mobs (who tend to ignore armor with the really hard hits...) that extra protection is useless.

Aen, on the other hand, gives +1 parry (for a total of +6 and a probable double-digit difference in parry chance), +75 stat boosts (450 altogether, and a bonus of 450 hp/stam is a HUGE advantage in PvP. C'mon Lockheart, you know this), and very high protection percentage including full all-around values (with a player-made set you will usually have to choose between bludgeoning, slashing, or piercing protection). Outside of boss fights in very specific circumstances, Aen armor is far and away better than anything a player can use.

(It is also leagues better than any light armor, giving pikemen a major advantage. The no-brainer decision to go against a pike with no armor suddenly becomes hard to make when you could be getting +12 or even +30 parry and +450 stats over the BEST light armor. It's no secret that Aen is good enough to dictate strategic decisions. And of course if they are in light armor and you are in Aen armor, they really have no shot.)

And then availability... I am no fan of "phat l3wt," but DT does have something of a point. Invasion weapons aside, getting a max protect/max parry set of q250 supreme heavy armor is barely even possible. You would basically need to be in a high position in one of the guilds that monopolize sup mats. And an armor crafter would not be going too far to charge you 300 millions dappers just to make such an armor (I would estimate the total value at over a billion daps, honestly).

Except when you bring in Aen.... Now you have an easy win. A party of level 150s can have Aen in the bag if they know the way. Every time Aen respawns, someone gets a new set. There aren't enough sup mats to do that with ideal sets of player-made armor, even if ALL the mats were devoted to making them. Full-parry armor is notoriously hard to get because of the animal mats needed for it.

Kali, Aen armor gives a major edge. It is possible for a person with player armor to beat a player with Aen armor, if the former does a very good job and the latter just smashes one action all fight. In theory anyone could beat anyone else, because there's always a chance to miss and a chance to hit. I would estimate that for two identical players, one in an Aen set and one with player crafted armor, the Aen player would have an edge of 95%-98%. IE the other player would probably have a 2%-5% chance to win. I'm sure that will seem extreme to some, but I believe it. That edge does go down considerably as skill and level differences come into play - a level 250 skilled fighter would be a favorite against a level 240 unskilled Aen fighter.

It should be allowed. But items need to vary more and offer some -Parry/Dodge for adversaries (along with the other mods that are inactive on weapons). Instead of taking things away, complete things that are missing and some of these balance issues won't exist.

-Bosamba of Infinity-

madnak wrote:Having some extra protection value hardly makes a q250 better than Aen armor. In fact, because your protect percentages are going to be lower, you will actually take more damage with a high-protection set than with an Aen set (particularly in PvP, where a player would have to do about 2000 damage per hit to make that extra protection worthwhile. And it is useless against piercing weapons anyhow). A max-protect set might possibly be better against bosses, but even then healers are likely to be "topping you off" anyhow, and the efficiency of the slight damage reduction will be next to nil given the overheals. Outside of bosses and certain very hard-hitting mobs (who tend to ignore armor with the really hard hits...) that extra protection is useless.

Aen, on the other hand, gives +1 parry (for a total of +6 and a probable double-digit difference in parry chance), +75 stat boosts (450 altogether, and a bonus of 450 hp/stam is a HUGE advantage in PvP. C'mon Lockheart, you know this), and very high protection percentage including full all-around values (with a player-made set you will usually have to choose between bludgeoning, slashing, or piercing protection). Outside of boss fights in very specific circumstances, Aen armor is far and away better than anything a player can use.

(It is also leagues better than any light armor, giving pikemen a major advantage. The no-brainer decision to go against a pike with no armor suddenly becomes hard to make when you could be getting +12 or even +30 parry and +450 stats over the BEST light armor. It's no secret that Aen is good enough to dictate strategic decisions. And of course if they are in light armor and you are in Aen armor, they really have no shot.)

And then availability... I am no fan of "phat l3wt," but DT does have something of a point. Invasion weapons aside, getting a max protect/max parry set of q250 supreme heavy armor is barely even possible. You would basically need to be in a high position in one of the guilds that monopolize sup mats. And an armor crafter would not be going too far to charge you 300 millions dappers just to make such an armor (I would estimate the total value at over a billion daps, honestly).

Except when you bring in Aen.... Now you have an easy win. A party of level 150s can have Aen in the bag if they know the way. Every time Aen respawns, someone gets a new set. There aren't enough sup mats to do that with ideal sets of player-made armor, even if ALL the mats were devoted to making them. Full-parry armor is notoriously hard to get because of the animal mats needed for it.

Kali, Aen armor gives a major edge. It is possible for a person with player armor to beat a player with Aen armor, if the former does a very good job and the latter just smashes one action all fight. In theory anyone could beat anyone else, because there's always a chance to miss and a chance to hit. I would estimate that for two identical players, one in an Aen set and one with player crafted armor, the Aen player would have an edge of 95%-98%. IE the other player would probably have a 2%-5% chance to win. I'm sure that will seem extreme to some, but I believe it. That edge does go down considerably as skill and level differences come into play - a level 250 skilled fighter would be a favorite against a level 240 unskilled Aen fighter.

Personally I'd choose:

250Q Heavy Armour with;
+125 HP Per Peice: +750 HP Boost
+3 Parry Per Peice: +18 Parry
600 Slash Reists
55% Protection


Over

200Q Aen;
+100 HP Per Peice: +600 HP Boost
+100 Stam Per Peice: +600 Stam Boost
+4 Parry Per Peice: +24 Parry
480 Slash Reists
55% Protection

You do gain a fraction more Parry but me and Brithlem have tested many times the difference is nothing the only advantage is its +600 Stam Boost other than that its a lot weaker Vs Sword.

virii wrote:Personally I'd choose:

250Q Heavy Armour with;
+125 HP Per Peice: +750 HP Boost
+3 Parry Per Peice: +18 Parry
600 Slash Reists
55% Protection

Where you saw armour like this?In dreams?
We speak about "+7", not about "+4".

26101987 wrote:Where you saw armour like this?In dreams?
We speak about "+7", not about "+4".

We speak about ALL Aen armour and if +7 ment so much why would I be selling it?

What good is 600 slash resist in PvP?

Doesn't damage get halved, so to be able to absorb that much of a hit in PvP the original hit would need to be about 2400 damage?

And that's putting aside the sheer lack of such armors existing compared to Aen sets.....

sehracii wrote:What good is 600 slash resist in PvP?

Doesn't damage get halved, so to be able to absorb that much of a hit in PvP the original hit would need to be about 2400 damage?

And that's putting aside the sheer lack of such armors existing compared to Aen sets.....

Melee Duels, and thats why i said a lot of people won't be able to take part due to lack of armour.

You can't get 55% and 600 protect in all 3 fields. It can't be done. If you really think there is a mat combination that will give 100% parry, 100% protection vs slash, 100% prot vs blunt, 100% prot vs pierce, AND 100% max protect show me the craft screen and maybe I'll believe it. So far I have never seen more than two 100% scores on a single item. I am a weapon crafter, admittedly. But I'm reasonably sure this is impossible even with kitin larvae.

Aen has 100% values on durability, max prot, prot vs slash/blunt/pierce, and more than 100% on parry and stat bonus. The prot vs values are the ONLY things you can raise above Aen at the high end. You claim to have done tests showing that extra prot value make duels against swordsmen easier? I'm calling you out on that.

No swordsman can deal higher than 1500 damage. In PvP that equates to 750 damage. Since your max protect value is 55%. That means the most you can block is 413 points of damage even IF you found a swordsman who could deal 1500 with his weapon. Aen armor has a 480 prot vs slash, therefore Aen armor gives you the total MAXIMUM possible protection (and then some) in any duel. Period. Aen is categorically better in every way except one. Instead of getting 600 extra stamina, you get 150 extra hp. Is 150 hp worth more than 600 stamina in a melee duel? It's generally not, and the both of you know it. In any evenly-matched duel, that 600 stam is going to be more efficient.

+6 parry is also huge. I did some minor tests with parry, and while my sample wasn't anywhere near large enough to be representative (I'm too lazy for solid research ), it was statistically significant as far as it went. Now, based on my testing there is a maximum effective level of parry - if your parry score is +100 on your enemy's level, you will receive about the same bonus (again, not tested extensively but it seems to be the case) as if you have +50. But before you reach that point of diminishing returns (and if you are so far above your opponent you don't even need to parry) +6 means a lot.

If someone like Oshido is reading, btw, I would LOVE the math on hit rate

I'll conceed the point on mobs. But we're talking about duels here, and Aen is definitely the best.

Oh, and if I seem overemphatic it's because I can't find the brackets on this international keyboard, so I can't use italics

madnak wrote:You can't get 55% and 600 protect in all 3 fields. It can't be done. If you really think there is a mat combination that will give 100% parry, 100% protection vs slash, 100% prot vs blunt, 100% prot vs pierce, AND 100% max protect show me the craft screen and maybe I'll believe it. So far I have never seen more than two 100% scores on a single item. I am a weapon crafter, admittedly. But I'm reasonably sure this is impossible even with kitin larvae.

Aen has 100% values on durability, max prot, prot vs slash/blunt/pierce, and more than 100% on parry and stat bonus. The prot vs values are the ONLY things you can raise above Aen at the high end. You claim to have done tests showing that extra prot value make duels against swordsmen easier? I'm calling you out on that.

No swordsman can deal higher than 1500 damage. In PvP that equates to 750 damage. Since your max protect value is 55%. That means the most you can block is 413 points of damage even IF you found a swordsman who could deal 1500 with his weapon. Aen armor has a 480 prot vs slash, therefore Aen armor gives you the total MAXIMUM possible protection (and then some) in any duel. Period. Aen is categorically better in every way except one. Instead of getting 600 extra stamina, you get 150 extra hp. Is 150 hp worth more than 600 stamina in a melee duel? It's generally not, and the both of you know it. In any evenly-matched duel, that 600 stam is going to be more efficient.

+6 parry is also huge. I did some minor tests with parry, and while my sample wasn't anywhere near large enough to be representative (I'm too lazy for solid research ), it was statistically significant as far as it went. Now, based on my testing there is a maximum effective level of parry - if your parry score is +100 on your enemy's level, you will receive about the same bonus (again, not tested extensively but it seems to be the case) as if you have +50. But before you reach that point of diminishing returns (and if you are so far above your opponent you don't even need to parry) +6 means a lot.

If someone like Oshido is reading, btw, I would LOVE the math on hit rate

I'll conceed the point on mobs. But we're talking about duels here, and Aen is definitely the best.

Oh, and if I seem overemphatic it's because I can't find the brackets on this international keyboard, so I can't use italics

If you want to test come to me and you'll see there is no different, it's just like casting afflictions on a mob, you cna be hitting them all day then you miss all the time, I have the following if you want to test:

+3 Parry - Crafted Armour
+4 Aen
+7 Aen

Can test whenever you want.