Ryzom

There is something I would like more than watching the cursed Kami and Karavan fight it out in some distant corner, and that is to be rid of them both. I am afriad, however, that the offer of "Celestial Weapons" may tempt many a Karavan follower to their side and bring war amongst hominkind as the zealous seek an opportunity to conquer.

Perhaps 'neutral' is indeed a valid third side therefore, but free of conflict they will not be.

Beware all things beginning in 'K'.

Tember
Clan Omnis
Remembering the words of his Pyr mum.

borg9 wrote:I have chosen the fourth way. I stand for and by my fellow homins. Be your skin blue, be you tall and thin, be you tanned by the desert sun with fire in you blood. To me you are one, a homin, a survive of the great war.

I will not raise my sword to attack those who chose a different path. I will not seek to gain control of the lands of my fellow homins. However understand me, I will not stand idol, I will not let an aggressor with ANY banner take away my freedom, I will not be a slave. Strike at me and I will strike you down. Should you be stronger than me another will take my place. I am not alone in my beliefs. Even if one side is victorious, enjoy you victory and repetion of pass mistakes. It will be a short lived one, for one day from the ash other free-spirted Homins will rise.

. *bows*

borg9 wrote:I have not bone to pick with this generation of Matis, Fryos or Zoria. I have welcomed them all into my home as they have welcomed me.

Beautifully written, Neun. But then I read this from the Matis gov't:

Yrkanis wrote:For too long a time we have abandoned the future which is ours by right. To conquer the common races and to reign over this world.

and I think to myself, "didn't we already teach the Matis the price of arrogance?". Must we be forced to abandon our alliance with them?

I call on all homins of conscience to stand firm and reject the notion that we must fight each other. Fight those that call for war or let them fight each other. But fighting each other only weakens us all.

oldmess wrote:
...and I think to myself, "didn't we already teach the Matis the price of arrogance?". Must we be forced to abandon our alliance with them?

I call on all homins of conscience to stand firm and reject the notion that we must fight each other. Fight those that call for war or let them fight each other. But fighting each other only weakens us all.

They have the RIGHT to chose, to deny them the right is to suppress freedom.

Should their choice mean our paths cross, I will still say 'Hiya', however if they are agressive towards homins I will have no choice but to defend Hominkind.

Have the Matis leaders not learned that one free homin is worth more to Atys than 100 slaves. Have they forgotten that the so called 'common races' offered them forgiveness and a safe haven in their time of need.

Remember the consiquences of you actions left the Hidden Source a desert wasteland, is this what you wish for the whole of Atys?

Lust for power, blurs your minds and clouds your vision.

Make your choice and live with it.

(So much for getting some sleep )

I agree with Neun in this.

How quickly homin forget that in their parents generation the races sheltered together in the Prime Roots. Family friends of my parents generation are both Zorai and Mantis, and only chance prevents Fyros being there also.

How quickly homin forget the scourge of the Kitin! Why would I join a war against my fellow homin? It's like fighting over the spoils while the Kincher approaches!

Why would the homin, who even in recent memory have fought together against a Kitin invasion, now fight each other? What would the spoils of such a war be?

This is a time of rebuilding from previous wars, not for making new ones.

borg9 wrote:Learning from the past mistakes of Hominkind, is something that seems to have escaped the wisest sages.

Who did not learn, are you speaking for yourself ? The Matis have learned, we have learned that the Fyros are capable of unleashing any type of horror unto our lands in their pursuit for riches.

borg9 wrote:Before the Kitin came, all races sort to build their own place on Atys. As they grew stronger and more powerful they sort to control the other lands and as felt that it was their right as a strong Nation to conquer other 'lesser' races. They laid claim to parts of the other races lands and even more horrifically, enslaved the fellow homins.

In any civilization there are those that are in charge, and those that follow. The meek will NOT inheret Atys.

borg9 wrote:Then came the Kitin, the divide Homin people tried to halt the threat. They failed, the kitin had the advantage. They worked as one and tore though hominkind. Without the help of the Kami, the Karavan and Elias Tryton our peoples would have been destroyed. Not because they were weaker than the enemy, but divided they could never win against a united foe.

No, no, no... The Kitin were always there, the folly of the Fyros brought the Kitin's onto us... We will never forget ! There were brave homins that helped us, but Jena and the Karavan have always stated that we should avoid the Prime Roots. That warning went unheeded and we have been rebuilding Atys ever since.

borg9 wrote:I have mused alot about this subject. Did the Kami and the Karavan see a new way to gain complete control for themselves or was this always the plan.

Oddly, you left out your third party here, the Homins were always in control of their destiny and the natural order was working.

borg9 wrote:We may have been brought to Atys, it may not be our lands or origin. However Atys is now our home, we have no where else to go.

You make this claim based on what ? Your ability to travel ? I have seen many places in the Canopy that may hold more life and additional treasures. We may have many places to go, places we have yet to discover !

borg9 wrote:We have returned from our place of hiding, we returned as refugees. The few survives of the Kitin war have helped us rebuild and grow stronger.

Now we are strong, is it destined the we repeat the errors of our fathers' father. Will our wise leaders seek to divide us under a banner of a false prophet that has not told us of their true intention.

Are we strong, who in Atys will make a stand and state they are strong ? Unless you are a Fyros, why would you think your forefathers made errors ? As a Matisian I had a good life, not always peaceful but we were a happy people. Who is this false prophet you speak of, Elias Tryton maybe ?

borg9 wrote:I have not seen the Karavan themselves talk of the comming of Jena.

I have

borg9 wrote:I have not heard the voice of the Kami in my mind warn me of inpending doom and distruction.

In your mind, is that how the Kami works ?

borg9 wrote:But from the mouths of homins, some I trust and others who I trust less, talk of attacking first, in defence!

Homins we all are, but who are the homins who choose to attack first... that is NEVER in defense.

borg9 wrote:Will hominkind once again fall, will all we have worked hard for crumble in ruins to satisfy the blood lust of our leaders.

We, as homins, did not fall or we would not be here to speak... we survived. Our leaders, before and after the folly of the Fyros have made us what we are today...

borg9 wrote:I have not bone to pick with this generation of Matis, Fryos or Zoria. I have welcomed them all into my home as they have welcomed me.

Every race has the potential to have the same beliefs that others do... Until they show different all homins MAY have some common ground.

borg9 wrote:Nothing has convinced me that the Karavan are evil and Jena is a god.

Of course, the Karavan is the way, serve Jena...

borg9 wrote:Nothing has convinced me that the Kami are evil and Ma'duk is a god.

Ma-Duk is clearly not a god, and may be evil as Ma-Duk does not follow the ways of Jena...

borg9 wrote:They may wish to fight amongst themselves for more control over Atys, but they have failed to see that it is not truely either of them that are in control of the lands. Free-spirted homins have built the cities with their own hands. Don't misunderstand me, we didn't do it alone. The Kami and the Karavan may have assisted and sometimes hindered, but if I care for a source while you dig, does that make me a God?

Nope, you are clearly not a god... Free spirited homins did not rebuild their cities. The cities were named and built based on the foundations that each race believed in. The names of our towns and regions are not random, they are named after the unique individuals that made us what we are today. I was born into a land that was Matis, I did not see any other race while I grew and became a Matisian. I left the lands where we grow out of our baby teeth into a proud Matisian city. Yrkanis a city rightly named after our great king.

borg9 wrote:If we have to choose a side, and not to chose is to have the choice made for you, lets be sure that all the choices are clear to homins of all races.

You can choose to be Neutral, to take no part. To stand idol and watch you fellow homins fall and die.

There is no such thing as not making a choice, that is in fact also a choice. Will you not stand to represent your race when the time comes ?

borg9 wrote:You can choose to rally to the battle cries of the Sages of the Kami and take up arms to slay in cold blood the followers of the Karavan.

You can choose to rally to the battle cries of the Sages of the Karavan and take up arms to slay in cold blood the followers of the Kami.

You have made your own point moot, true we all have beliefs that we follow... they may be faction, they may be race, or they may be guild... but we ALL have to stand for something. We are not all alike, else we would have free trade in materials and gear. We do not have that ! If you make any item in Atys and do not give it away or for "cost" you have a purpose... why are you choosing to amass your fortune ? For homins ? Nope, you have your on personal/guild/race/faction aspirations... Please tell all of us "Homins" where we can find all your own, your guilds and race gear/mats for sale at cost on the market ?????

borg9 wrote:However, there is a fourth way. Another choice! Heed the words of the Guild of Elias, not to join them or follow them, but to take into your heart the words they say. They were persecuted by both followers of the Kami and the Karavan for their beliefs, so yes they may have an axe to grind with both.

However they warned of a coming threat, be it Jena or some other invader adopting her name. The threat has be reveiled.

Ah, you have made a third faction (other than neutral who will wait to see who wins then take over)... Maybe followers of Elias have their own aspirations for power, waiting on the Kami and Karavan to weaken themselves.

borg9 wrote:I will not tell you which side to choose. I will not ask you to choose a given way. The choice as it always is in a free society, YOUR CHOICE!

I know I have made my choice, I have always followed a straight and true path.

For me the choice was a simple one, though it took a long time to be sure.

I have chosen the fourth way. I stand for and by my fellow homins. Be your skin blue, be you tall and thin, be you tanned by the desert sun with fire in you blood. To me you are one, a homin, a survive of the great war.

Free society, are you NOT using Karavan AND Kami portals and teleports ? Not free, you pay them for this service... Though I admit the silly Kami still allow me to get teleport tickets to their points... all the while I quiet clearly despise them.

borg9 wrote:I will not raise my sword to attack those who chose a different path. I will not seek to gain control of the lands of my fellow homins. However understand me, I will not stand idol, I will not let an aggressor with ANY banner take away my freedom, I will not be a slave. Strike at me and I will strike you down. Should you be stronger than me another will take my place. I am not alone in my beliefs. Even if one side is victorious, enjoy you victory and repetion of pass mistakes. It will be a short lived one, for one day from the ash other free-spirted Homins will rise.

So you are not a passivist... if we step into your path you will react... You are not a slave, nor a leader ? Who are these others you speak of, your guild ? Are they all also followers of Elias ? Is there a list of homins that do not represent anyone or anything and just hope to survive ?

This would be good to know, as you yourself have decided there are 4 options for all homins. Everyone has to represent something, your "4" options may be the choices... who are you to say ? But if you do represent something, should you not also profess that and let it be known to all ?

borg9 wrote:Until the errors of the past are learned from, there will always be war of somekind. For greed for power and control, breeds wars.

Ah, we are not all homins... we are breeds ? What Mistakes did the Matis make.... The only mistake I see from the past was the Fyros unleashing the Kitins !!!

borg9 wrote:I stand for hominkind, for equality, the right to be free.

Seek out and find in your heart what you beleive and follow that path.

There is no right or wrong choice. There is only choice itself. For without choice there is no point in living.

I will say no more on this subject this day, I need to seek more information on the coming threats to the homins.

Hominkind NEVER had equality. The "right to be free", free to tell others to follow your path as it is best ? You sound much like the Karavan, Kami, followers of Elias and Passivists... There is right and wrong... one you will survive in, the others you may not.

borg9 wrote:bows*

/bows back

OOC: I have not seen nearly enough posts this well thought out (grammar aside, lol), many go overboard. Being someone I know and respect, I made my stand based on my long known stance in SoR... Great post and well thought thru... IG we will not agree on "stance and gameplay" style... I respect your points quite a bit, though they will make the game BORING !!!
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Disciple of Jena
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WWJD - What Would Jena Do ?

Many things were crossing Jelathnia's mind as she sat down beneath the warm glow of a lightpost, having no other place to call home as of yet. She had spent the day training vigorously, preparing herself for the coming war. Now, fatigued, she rested in Davae, intending to return to Yrkanis in the morning.

A few days ago she had made a decision to go to the Witherings. But since then she had realized she would need to be much stronger before attempting such a perilous trip. And she had no idea what sort of creatures inhabited the jungle, or what dangers she might face once there.

So she made the most of the days, growing stronger and honing her skills.

She leaned back against the lightpost, looking towards the gate of the town and past it to the darkening sky, as her thoughts drifted towards the Guild of Elias. She knew nothing of them, other than that they had delivered the warning of the coming of Jena before anyone else. The Kami had said not to trust them. And Jelathnia was not inclined to - the Kami and Karavan held many mysteries, but at least she knew a little about them...of the Guild of Elias, she knew nothing.

Her thoughts returned to planning her journey to the Witherings. She wasn't sure what she would do with her mount and packer, and was reluctant to take them at all for fear of losing them to predators. If she did bring them, she expected to do a lot of running...they would tire and grow hungry quickly...

As the first stars became visible in the sky, Jelathnia felt her thoughts dimming, her eyelids becoming heavy, and she surrendered to sleep.

vguerin wrote:Who did not learn, are you speaking for yourself ? The Matis have learned, we have learned that the Fyros are capable of unleashing any type of horror unto our lands in their pursuit for riches.

The past has many lessons we can learn from and as you quite rightly point out its not just the sages that haven't learned from them.

vguerin wrote:In any civilization there are those that are in charge, and those that follow. The meek will NOT inheret Atys.

There is a huge difference between our homelands being passed down between generations and a generation claiming that a land is theirs and taking by force. Atys already belongs to hominkind and its defence should be our highest priority. Wasting effort and homin lives by fighting for scraps of it seems pointless.

vguerin wrote:No, no, no... The Kitin were always there, the folly of the Fyros brought the Kitin's onto us... We will never forget ! There were brave homins that helped us, but Jena and the Karavan have always stated that we should avoid the Prime Roots. That warning went unheeded and we have been rebuilding Atys ever since.

Had the Matis not starved the Fyros of a water supply, their need for resources might not have been so great. This does not excuse their actions, nor does it excuse the Matis. However before casting blame on a single race ensure that your race is blame free.

vguerin wrote:Oddly, you left out your third party here, the homins were always in control of their destiny and the natural order was working.

Do you speak on the natural order of Atys or do you believe there is also an order within the races. To me all homins were both equals.

vguerin wrote:
You make this claim based on what ? Your ability to travel ? I have seen many places in the Canopy that may hold more life and additional treasures. We may have many places to go, places we have yet to discover !

Are we strong, who in Atys will make a stand and state they are strong ? Unless you are a Fyros, why would you think your forefathers made errors ? As a Matisian I had a good life, not always peaceful but we were a happy people. Who is this false prophet you speak of, Elias Tryton maybe ?

Our history tells that our ancestors were brought to Atys in the belly of the Great Dragon. Where we came from before that nobody knows, but we were stranded here. As this is all we have, should we not make the best of it, rather than fight each other over it.

vguerin wrote:
I have

My concern is the same as many others. It is that these words are spoken by homins. They talk only of striking first. Is this not the same fool hardness that the Fyros suffered from when they met the kitin? They paid with their lives for their mistake and the lives of many other homins. Surely to repeat this is folly.

vguerin wrote:
In your mind, is that how the Kami works ?

As you are a true follower of Jena, I can understand you ignorance of the ways of the Kami. The Kami are in telepathic contact will all living things on Atys. I know this because I am willing to listen to all sides before deciding.

vguerin wrote:
Homins we all are, but who are the homins who choose to attack first... that is NEVER in defense.

The leaders, under both banners, are calling for a first strike. If neither strikes, there is no need for defence.

vguerin wrote:
We, as homins, did not fall or we would not be here to speak... we survived. Our leaders, before and after the folly of the Fyros have made us what we are today...

None of the races are blame free for the past mistakes. Using someone else's mistake to justify your own actions seems to perpetuate the mistake, rather than learn from it.

vguerin wrote:
Every race has the potential to have the same beliefs that others do... Until they show different all homins MAY have some common ground.

There is some hope in your words.

vguerin wrote:
Of course, the Karavan is the way, serve Jena...

This is your choice. Does it give you the right to restrict the choice of others?

vguerin wrote:
Ma-Duk is clearly not a god, and may be evil as Ma-Duk does not follow the ways of Jena...

Not agreeing with a belief does not make someone evil.

vguerin wrote:
Nope, you are clearly not a god... Free spirited homins did not rebuild their cities. The cities were named and built based on the foundations that each race believed in. The names of our towns and regions are not random, they are named after the unique individuals that made us what we are today. I was born into a land that was Matis, I did not see any other race while I grew and became a Matisian. I left the lands where we grow out of our baby teeth into a proud Matisian city. Yrkanis a city rightly named after our great king.

It was the homins that built the city, however they honoured the person who led them.

Did you not meet other races walk around this city? Didn't they have the same wants, needs, and fears that you have?

vguerin wrote:
There is no such thing as not making a choice, that is in fact also a choice. Will you not stand to represent your race when the time comes ?

We agree. Not to choose is to have the choice made for you. I have made my choice, I stand proud and for all the races.

vguerin wrote:
You have made your own point moot, true we all have beliefs that we follow... they may be faction, they may be race, or they may be guild... but we ALL have to stand for something. We are not all alike, else we would have free trade in materials and gear. We do not have that ! If you make any item in Atys and do not give it away or for "cost" you have a purpose... why are you choosing to amass your fortune ? For homins ? Nope, you have your on personal/guild/race/faction aspirations... Please tell all of us "Homins" where we can find all your own, your guilds and race gear/mats for sale at cost on the market ?????

Ask my customers my price for goods, you maybe suprised by their answer. I have a standard charge and let them decide if they want to pay me more. Would you include time when you talk about 'for cost'?

vguerin wrote:

Ah, you have made a third faction (other than neutral who will wait to see who wins then take over)... Maybe followers of Elias have their own aspirations for power, waiting on the Kami and Karavan to weaken themselves.

Free society, are you NOT using Karavan AND Kami portals and teleports ? Not free, you pay them for this service... Though I admit the silly Kami still allow me to get teleport tickets to their points... all the while I quiet clearly despise them.

I have stated I do not hate, but also do not trust, either Kami or Karavan. However I do not worship as a god the shopkeeper who supplies me with food for my packer.

vguerin wrote:
So you are not a passivist... if we step into your path you will react... You are not a slave, nor a leader ? Who are these others you speak of, your guild ? Are they all also followers of Elias ? Is there a list of homins that do not represent anyone or anything and just hope to survive ?

This would be good to know, as you yourself have decided there are 4 options for all homins. Everyone has to represent something, your "4" options may be the choices... who are you to say ? But if you do represent something, should you not also profess that and let it be known to all ?

Ah, we are not all homins... we are breeds ? What Mistakes did the Matis make.... The only mistake I see from the past was the Fyros unleashing the Kitins !!!

Hominkind NEVER had equality. The "right to be free", free to tell others to follow your path as it is best ? You sound much like the Karavan, Kami, followers of Elias and Passivists... There is right and wrong... one you will survive in, the others you may not.

It is true I will protect myself. Being a martyr is something I am not ready for yet. I have studied the words of Elias. he has always spoken of unity amongst the races. As for his intentions, we will wait and see if he is true to the words that he has spoken. (OCC: Shame all the Elias quotes have disappeared from the Lore!)

As for revealing 'the others', I have made my choice to stand up and be seen, they will make theirs. I have lived under the fear of being killed for not following one of the two visible choices. I am now without that fear. So maybe I am closer to being a martyr for peace and a united hominkind than I first thought.

*bows*

OOC: I try to avoid as much OOC stuff as possible, the problem I feel we face is that Ryzom is it has taken a long time to reach the point where its being pushed into a two sided endless battle. (If that is where they are leading us.) Because of the 'conflict' not being around for a long time, many players have chosen to 'just enjoy the world and the people in it', these players need a home. This maybe the Guild of Elias, we don't have enough Lore on it to know that for sure. (Elias could turn out to be just like the Kami and Karavn, or like the Wizard of OZ, a man dressed up as a great wizard.)

So rather than letting players who don't want to fight a war between to 'deities' when they believe in neither, miss out on the fun and have to sit idol. This is a chance for them to rally for peace, but be active about it. There will always be players that want to fight for what they believe in and I think that is my point. You want to fight the 'evil' Kami then go for it. But if you bring me into your fight, I will fight not for the Kami and Karavan, but for what I believe in, which is Hominkind. I feel that a 'three way' fight will be far from boring and we will make the 'two sides' have to question and justify their propaganda. This means the players will have to work much harder than just saying 'I am right, I will kill you, I win'.

This is the next generation of computer game, not scripted and predictable, but dynamic and full of twists and turns. How Nevrax responds to the players will be just as exciting and the game itself.

As for my grandma, what has she ever done to you? (j/k)