Ryzom

Yep, autoreconnect sometimes does work and i kind of like it better then get dropped with every network hickup - come to think of it, I dont remember of a game that implemented it before; if tcp session is gone - thats that. Considering that ryzom runs on UDP they took advantage of 'indefinite wait'


As for all 'knowledgable' people - please, stop using buzz words like ISP networks, country-wide backbones, stateful packet inspection. - All of those have rather little to do with implementation of a timeout function. If you dont know what you are talking about - please dont post.

Even bad router code has nothing to do with implementation of a timeout function. Although it most certanly had something to do with us not being able to log in

amcyr wrote:Personally, I'd rather the game just sit there and let -me- decide when I've waited long enough (usually after a quick Klients check ).

genzod23 wrote:You with all your knowledge, still don't have a freaking clue, because guess what? i've played over 14 MMORPGS

Congratulations. I can tell from your reply that didn't take in a word of what I said, or that anyone else has said for that matter. I can also tell that you don't approach problems logically in your day-to-day life, since you're completely un-objective about what could be happening here. Again, I can also tell that this reply is completely pointless, but I'm going to write it anyway, because I have to deal with people like you all day long.

Answer me these questions please:

Did these 14 MMOs all install new, recent-model routers on their network? The very model that Nevrax have chosen to use?
Can you verify that? If you can't, how can you say that those new routers aren't causing unexpected problems, as Zumwalt mentioned?
How do you know this is a software problem, and not hardware (new router) related?

Basically, you've convinced yourself that this is a software problem, and you've totally ruled out anything else from even influencing the problem. If I did that with my system at work, and used the first idea that came into my head without trying to prove it wrong, I'd have a pile of crap programs that didn't do what they were supposed to. Also, I'd be trying to fix non-existant software problems when people tell me "Honestly, I did exactly what I do every day, no difference, and now it doesn't work anymore", and I know for a fact that the program in question hasn't changed.

My friend, your experience with 14 MMOs gives you nothing except an opinion, and quite frankly that opinion, without any knowledge of the many factors that could be involved, is worth nothing. I can appreciate you are annoyed with the game, but posting here and ranting about things you don't understand will not help you, in any way.

Sorry if that's harsh, but since I suffer this kind of complaint for 8 hours a day about software that I've written myself, I don't appreciate it when people post this stuff in public without having 100% facts, especially when they use bad language (albeit 'slang' bad language) and capital letters. We know nothing about the internals of this game, and we know nothing about the problems with routers and downtime. As such, we have no grounds or reason to post about these problems as if we do know what's going on.

dazman76 wrote:Congratulations. I can tell from your reply that didn't take in a word of what I said, or that anyone else has said for that matter. I can also tell that you don't approach problems logically in your day-to-day life, since you're completely un-objective about what could be happening here. Again, I can also tell that this reply is completely pointless, but I'm going to write it anyway, because I have to deal with people like you all day long.

Sorry if that's harsh, but since I suffer this kind of complaint for 8 hours a day about software that I've written myself, I don't appreciate it when people post this stuff in public without having 100% facts, especially when they use bad language (albeit 'slang' bad language) and capital letters. We know nothing about the internals of this game, and we know nothing about the problems with routers and downtime. As such, we have no grounds or reason to post about these problems as if we do know what's going on.

You are completely missing the point of the argument, because you are soo wrapped up on the way i presented my arguement that you can't see past that to understand what the arguement is about. I'll try to be as basic as possible, to get you to comprehend what i'm trying to say.....


1. I don't need 100% of facts as to what happened, I'm not refering to why this server or router or whatever happened went down this time. I'm refering to once a problem with any of the above happens, then what does the program do in general to notify the client that there is no longer a connection and terminate the program.

2. My comment about every other MMORPG in the industry having this function means, guess what it's an industry standard to have the software function and time you out, the fact that ryzom does not time you out, means that the SOFTWARE does not meet up to industry standards of comparable software in the marketplace.

3. Before you ramble off into techincal obscurities, at least acknowledge the fact that "yes this software should time you out and close down"


4. the fact that a Internet/network capable program in 2005, can't time you out and disconnect is about as absurd as having a program with out mouse support or sound support. this isn't 1985 when either of those were acceptable also


So ryzom needs to get with the program, match their software with other simliar programs in the industry and have the same or better capablities.......

He might not know how to code his way out of a wet paper sack...but...he has a very valid point. If every other game I have ever beta tested or played has a time out code...why doesn't this game have it??? Wish had it for the love of Pete...and it never got out of open beta (I have feelings that it was never meant to due to conflicts of interest that make me SICK...but I have no concrete facts).

To me it seems almost as basic as the user name and password...not in ease to program, but in basic as ABC 123 the Kindie garten of MMORPG format/function. Even games that were NOT carbon copies of EQ had a time out function.

I don't know, digging back into my basic programming class in 1984 (we programmed on TRS80s!!)...I would say If no reply to client in 2 minutes (120 seconds I THINK would be the coding, it has been "a few years" since I picked up pencil to code...I could be a "bit rusty") then client shuts down. Or whatever the coding is for that. I would rather reconnect than stare at that insulting PLEASE WAIT. It is like EQ's LOADING, Please wait. (*Screams and throws mouse at the please wait screen).


I feel for yall, I haven't had to worry about that router, been beta testing some SILLY game that for SOME odd reason is fun, even though a brain dead limming with ONE paw could successfully play that game. Something about working quests with GOOD rewards (crap for cash, at level gear, and job advancements), and looking SO cute you gradually get diabetes is wearing on me. Maybe I just got SICK of having to use ALL of my brain to have fun, and all of my patience and most of my hubby's as well.

I guess sometimes you just need a STUPID game to play or your brain fries.

dazman76 wrote:Firstly, you aren't a programmer. This I know, because if you were a programmer, you would never have typed half of that paragraph. Secondly, you don't know about routers, and the actual make-up of the internet in technical detail. With that, I'm talking ISP networks, country-wide backbones, stateful packet inspection, and many other factors I don't know about myself.

It boils down to this - there are so many factors involved with running large MMO servers, that none of us (even the most knowledgeable) can correctly assume what is happening. We don't have access to the server, we don't have access to the hardware, and we don't have access to the ISP's networks.

As Zum stated, this could well be a router issue - and as Cerest stated, the server wasn't even down.

Ever written a network timeout routine? Did it work every time, and work quickly? And then if you place a brand new, previously unused router in the mix, would the routine then work flawlessly? Or is there a chance the router could break the packet flow, leaving the code thinking 'well, the server is still there, so I'll keep testing for a response'?

Please don't claim to know what's happening or 'how freaking easy' it is to fix, because the only kind of reply you'll get is this kind. Oh, and one thing I really can't stand, is when people reply to posts, generally talking rubbish, and do it in capitals...

Not only is it in every game ON the market...it is in or has been in most betas whether or not they even MADE the open market or not. Not only is it industry standard...most didn't even get to late closed beta (Horizons) or early open beta (Rubies of Eventide, Wish, etc and ad naseum) before such a feature was coded in.

As far as the geeks/nerds having their techno talk...I look at it like watching Star trek...most of it makes sense to them...but to me...it is all techno babble.

Yep I washed out of coding class, my eyes glazed over and I came to when the bell rang to let me run out screaming. I gladdly handed back in my pocket protector and bowed to the better geeks. But I still beat him at chess and could listen and speak in French, read and write in English at the same time So I am STILL a geek na na. Just not a puter geek is all, but that is ok...I married one.

genzod23 wrote:You are completely missing the point of the argument, because you are soo wrapped up on the way i presented my arguement that you can't see past that to understand what the arguement is about. I'll try to be as basic as possible, to get you to comprehend what i'm trying to say.....


1. I don't need 100% of facts as to what happened, I'm not refering to why this server or router or whatever happened went down this time. I'm refering to once a problem with any of the above happens, then what does the program do in general to notify the client that there is no longer a connection and terminate the program.

2. My comment about every other MMORPG in the industry having this function means, guess what it's an industry standard to have the software function and time you out, the fact that ryzom does not time you out, means that the SOFTWARE does not meet up to industry standards of comparable software in the marketplace.

3. Before you ramble off into techincal obscurities, at least acknowledge the fact that "yes this software should time you out and close down"


4. the fact that a Internet/network capable program in 2005, can't time you out and disconnect is about as absurd as having a program with out mouse support or sound support. this isn't 1985 when either of those were acceptable also


So ryzom needs to get with the program, match their software with other simliar programs in the industry and have the same or better capablities.......

As I read it, he was NOT talking about WHAT went wrong...if I read him right...he did NOT care. He wants ONE simple thing, industry standard as he states correctly. He wants the client to time out when the server craps out...or his end of the connection bites Ye ole big one. A simple enough request for him to ask for, and one I think he has a right to ask for.

I ask...Why doesn't the client have a time out code? It couldn't possibly take more than one line of code that repeats (check for packet exchange, are the client and sever talking??? if no shut down client, if so...continue client as normal...rinse...repeat...). I can't see it as a HUGE lag producer...or the 30 other games would not have it.

Plus...it is not anything NEW..."The Realm" has it for pitty's sake...and that is purely 2D graphics.

dazman76 wrote:Congratulations. I can tell from your reply that didn't take in a word of what I said, or that anyone else has said for that matter. I can also tell that you don't approach problems logically in your day-to-day life, since you're completely un-objective about what could be happening here. Again, I can also tell that this reply is completely pointless, but I'm going to write it anyway, because I have to deal with people like you all day long.

Answer me these questions please:

Did these 14 MMOs all install new, recent-model routers on their network? The very model that Nevrax have chosen to use?
Can you verify that? If you can't, how can you say that those new routers aren't causing unexpected problems, as Zumwalt mentioned?
How do you know this is a software problem, and not hardware (new router) related?

Basically, you've convinced yourself that this is a software problem, and you've totally ruled out anything else from even influencing the problem. If I did that with my system at work, and used the first idea that came into my head without trying to prove it wrong, I'd have a pile of crap programs that didn't do what they were supposed to. Also, I'd be trying to fix non-existant software problems when people tell me "Honestly, I did exactly what I do every day, no difference, and now it doesn't work anymore", and I know for a fact that the program in question hasn't changed.

My friend, your experience with 14 MMOs gives you nothing except an opinion, and quite frankly that opinion, without any knowledge of the many factors that could be involved, is worth nothing. I can appreciate you are annoyed with the game, but posting here and ranting about things you don't understand will not help you, in any way.

Sorry if that's harsh, but since I suffer this kind of complaint for 8 hours a day about software that I've written myself, I don't appreciate it when people post this stuff in public without having 100% facts, especially when they use bad language (albeit 'slang' bad language) and capital letters. We know nothing about the internals of this game, and we know nothing about the problems with routers and downtime. As such, we have no grounds or reason to post about these problems as if we do know what's going on.

In the 6 years that I played EQ...I am rather certain that they:
Updated routers...more than once if I had to guess

updated their graphics engine....more than once if I am remembering correctly

updated hardware WAY more than once

Added expansions that were specifically limited to those that bought the program, including new graphics that everyone got...bought the expansion or NOT (must have been a tricky bit of coding I would guess), if I am recalling correctly...they did this on a roughly six month to nine month basis...give or take.

Did EQ have its BIG snafus...LOL I could count the ways...so could anyone else that played past the free month.

Point is...everything you are talking about...is just part of the industry. Servers fry...fiber gets cut...connections WAY beyond your control get severed. But...players...customers EXPECT to remain connected most of the time. And I would say a NEW piece of hardware would be a GOOD thing to put on...the TEST server...And ask the testers to ALL play on a certain date to test the load. I don't know bout the rest...I would even delete a character and create the race that they asked me to create...just to help make things easier for the live servers.

It is the song of the tester...Why am I here...when you NEVER ask me to do my job? Why am I HERE if you won't test the product/ hardware OR software...it is ALL the product.


Plus...if ONE techno guy knows about the issues on this bit of hardware...why the *expletive* didn't the techs that installed it know that?? And the better question...if they knew and still installed it...why? And if there IS a known fix (don't know OR care if there is or not) why isn't it already applied...OR how about putting the working OLD system back in place until a fix IS found?

See you don't have to speak Techno geek to figure it out! It is a pretty SIMPLE idea. If it is broke...either fix it...or put a working piece of machinary in its place until such a time as THAT piece of machinary is working again.

It is BAFFLINGLY simple, possibly mind blowingly expensive...there in is the problem. But...if the OLD routers didn't die (again...don't know...don't care) then they SHOULD still have them...shouldn't they *stares at the piles of techo flotsom in the corner and wonders if saving anything that still works is a standard puter geek practice, then decides it must be*

It seems to be a weakness of the greatest minds, the simplest things are their greatest downfalls. Or as my mentor once said, "You are making this WAY too complicated, dear."

dazman76 wrote:Congratulations. I can tell from your reply that didn't take in a word of what I said, or that anyone else has said for that matter. I can also tell that you don't approach problems logically in your day-to-day life, since you're completely un-objective about what could be happening here. Again, I can also tell that this reply is completely pointless, but I'm going to write it anyway, because I have to deal with people like you all day long.

Answer me these questions please:

Did these 14 MMOs all install new, recent-model routers on their network? The very model that Nevrax have chosen to use?
Can you verify that? If you can't, how can you say that those new routers aren't causing unexpected problems, as Zumwalt mentioned?
How do you know this is a software problem, and not hardware (new router) related?

Basically, you've convinced yourself that this is a software problem, and you've totally ruled out anything else from even influencing the problem. If I did that with my system at work, and used the first idea that came into my head without trying to prove it wrong, I'd have a pile of crap programs that didn't do what they were supposed to. Also, I'd be trying to fix non-existant software problems when people tell me "Honestly, I did exactly what I do every day, no difference, and now it doesn't work anymore", and I know for a fact that the program in question hasn't changed.

My friend, your experience with 14 MMOs gives you nothing except an opinion, and quite frankly that opinion, without any knowledge of the many factors that could be involved, is worth nothing. I can appreciate you are annoyed with the game, but posting here and ranting about things you don't understand will not help you, in any way.

Sorry if that's harsh, but since I suffer this kind of complaint for 8 hours a day about software that I've written myself, I don't appreciate it when people post this stuff in public without having 100% facts, especially when they use bad language (albeit 'slang' bad language) and capital letters. We know nothing about the internals of this game, and we know nothing about the problems with routers and downtime. As such, we have no grounds or reason to post about these problems as if we do know what's going on.

lol, obviously bored then Lyrah

To be honest, when the server has gone down, I have been disconnected fairly quickly. As I see it, Ryzom does have time out code. My main point was that other factors may affect a connection timing out, such as router faults. Something that people don't seem to accept, even though it is fact. And even if you're an uber sys admin, you still can't say you can predict what a given router failure will affect, if that failure is as yet unknown.

It's pretty sad we've all come down to arguing about what code should and shouldn't be added, when none of us actually know what code is and isn't in there.

Ah well, I didn't make my post because I'm knowledgeable, and I never said router code had anything to do with timeout code (in fact my point was the exact opposite). Also the point that people continously ignore is that router failure can cause unknown failures in software, including with timeout functions.

Quit banging on about people's code and their programming, and discuss something that will atually make a difference to the game's progression. If the timeout code bothers you that much, go play EQ2 or another game whose timeout code has your stamp of approval

Hm I wonder if you missed my reply or you just ignored it...

sprite wrote:Or you could just hit "n" on youre keyboard, and see that "Network Status: Stalled" has appeared. Gee, I wonder what that could mean?

Basically what I'm saying is, even if you don't get the "You have been disconnected" message that I do when the server crashes, its pretty darn simple to work out whats happened. If the network status that your own client tells you says "FS LOST" or "Stalled" then its a pretty good indication that something has gone wrong and for all intents and purposes, you have been disconnected.

sprite wrote:Hm I wonder if you missed my reply or you just ignored it...



Basically what I'm saying is, even if you don't get the "You have been disconnected" message that I do when the server crashes, its pretty darn simple to work out whats happened. If the network status that your own client tells you says "FS LOST" or "Stalled" then its a pretty good indication that something has gone wrong and for all intents and purposes, you have been disconnected.

The problem is that the client doesn't always let you type "n" or anything else!
I usually assume that after 5 min of "please wait", I've been disconnected whether I get the message to that effect or not. Then I have to log in - get officially disconnected [error some number] - relog and all's fine 'til next time.