Now it realy bothers me! Balance between Melee and Casting

[lariva]

Yeh... sure, and i think those 800 hp hits from a 2h sword i saw yesterday were in my dreams.

In FFXI rangers, monks, and thieves could all deal some heavy damage. The big problem here isn't that tanks can be tanks, it's that elemental mages are the only damage-dealing class there is. We also need more classes with some healing abilities.

[madnak]

800 per hit is about a level 165 weapon (assuming 2h, the most damaging fight tree). At level 165 a mage can deal nearly 2000 damage per spell. The fact is, melee are not damage dealers.

[jackmor]

800 per hit is about a level 165 weapon (assuming 2h, the most damaging fight tree). At level 165 a mage can deal nearly 2000 damage per spell. The fact is, melee are not damage dealers.

You see guys. Now this is what Im talking about. Now, lets say we take this 165 CASTER ( there are no mages in Rysom btw) and give him a 165 2h melee skill tree to go with it. Now the caster can take some real hits and deal out the damage. You cant say the same for melee because there is nothing melee can do to make them better at melee.

Right now I can see the the melee warrior is turning into a sheild wall. Oh what fun. I get to be a wall.

On another note. I see that NO ONE wants to address the healer issue that has been brought up a couple of times in this thread. They have it worse than the melee. Fortunatly most of us heal as a second tree. I doubt there are many that are pure healers. But, it would be cool to see a healer put some stanza on that would do more than heal. Oh... maby throw a durablity or something. Havent thought about it much or at all for that matter.

[josephm]

Why do I have the title 'Archmage'?

Edit(long):

Pure healing is a professional and individual choice. All our guild members hit 100 healing before they decide to continue with another profession or stick with healing. Healing is higher than other skills in many cases. We do aim for priest titles

A level 165 tank can do damage consistantly without enhanced stanzas around ~400-500? Hits are generally faster than mages cast spells.

Casting a 4-500 damage spell will cost me ~100-~150 hp/sp. If I don't spend anything, I don't get anything out of it.

After casting two or three 2k spells at level 180, I'm a single hit kill for any mob ~150 especially in PR!

We killed a named Shalah in BB yesterday. Had a master of pain and it was still more hairy than pr bosses. He's got this equake effect....SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO cool! anyways, before the casters knew it we were getting pummeled, we moved away from the shalah and found we couldn't heal/regen each other to do ANY damage on the mob! Big equake radius

When it comes to cutes lets say, our 200 wades in and just destroys them, hardly any healing needed. When our master of pain and I try to kill a few we can only knock down a couple before we have to start healing each other prolonging damage over time.

To say casters are unbalanced 1. do more pvp. 2. consider actualy damage over time in varied situations. Yes a mage works out better in some and yes a tank works out better in some.

Yes you could point out all sorts of cases where casters are more powerful than tanks. Yes I could point back all sorts of situations where they aren't. Main point being PvP same level, I've only killed a few tanks...generally lower level than I.

[josephm]

stupid voting tool. I accidently clicked no! recount! recount! republicans took hold of my mouse!

[kinot33]

Your actual problem is this:

His Character = Off Mage/Healer 2 similar classes that share many of their Skill Blocks with each other allowing a sort of Maximization or skill blocks gained for a 2-tree character.

Your Character = Fighter/Healer 2 different classes that share very little in the way of Skill Blocks with each other, thus limiting how you can effectively combine your skills to Maximize 2-tree effictivness.

Of course he is more powerful than you at his level, he is essentially nearly twice your level as far as skill points spent on a class goes. Your Healer stuff cannot be combined with your fighter stuff to allow you to make seriously damaging stuff. Your Skill Points for each class are spent on two completely different skill pools while his are all focused into one.

Its just available numbers man.

Boost your Ranged Melee for a while, get a ton of extra points to spend in your melee class and see if you don;t start catching up to him. Yes, he will still out damage you, but you will become much more effective than you are right now by being able to afford ALL of the things you need to become outstanding at melee in any given situation.

[jackmor]

Why do I have the title 'Archmage'?

.

I dont know must be a bug or somthing.

[jackmor]

stupid voting tool. I accidently clicked no! recount! recount! republicans took hold of my mouse!

Yeah the republicans. Sure! Dam democrate recounter. jk

[jackmor]

Your actual problem is this:

His Character = Off Mage/Healer 2 similar classes that share many of their Skill Blocks with each other allowing a sort of Maximization or skill blocks gained for a 2-tree character.

Your Character = Fighter/Healer 2 different classes that share very little in the way of Skill Blocks with each other, thus limiting how you can effectively combine your skills to Maximize 2-tree effictivness.

Of course he is more powerful than you at his level, he is essentially nearly twice your level as far as skill points spent on a class goes. Your Healer stuff cannot be combined with your fighter stuff to allow you to make seriously damaging stuff. Your Skill Points for each class are spent on two completely different skill pools while his are all focused into one.

Its just available numbers man.

Boost your Ranged Melee for a while, get a ton of extra points to spend in your melee class and see if you don;t start catching up to him. Yes, he will still out damage you, but you will become much more effective than you are right now by being able to afford ALL of the things you need to become outstanding at melee in any given situation.

Now this is the kind of thing Ive been looking for. Thanks, Im gonna give this a try. I was thinking this might help. Ive been slowly working on cc for dodge just to check it out. But now i think Ill go whole hog and see what happens.
Good post Thanks again.

[genzod23]

I posted before about how the caster is way more powerful than the melee.
Some peaple said the balance was good because melee can take more hits than a caster. So they said, the melee can keep swinging while the caster is out of Sap and HP.

I didnt beleive this because I didnt think the melee could realy keep swinging and hitting enough to add up to the damage delt out by the caster.

Now I know for a fact that I was correct. Tonight my friend and I went out to do some missions. We had to kill some boducs, cloppers and gories. No healers just me and him. We both have 100+ healing ability. He is 136 caster and I am 155 2h sword melee.

Here is the proof. I went to kill at the same time he did. He killed two mobs for my one faster. Yes, he was out of hp and sap. Yes, he did take hits toe to toe. I was out of hp and stam at the end of my second kill. The mobs were the same level. He was resting while I was still killing my second mob.
You may think, well it looks balanced to me. It is not. Remember that I am 19 levels higher the he is.

This is no bull story. If you think it is try it.

We also did a little dueling. He almost won twice and, it was so close if I made one mistake he would have. He did win easely when I switched to my 2h mace level 117.

I dont think this is balanced at all. Its not right.

What's not balanced is your character is spec'ed very poorly......

melee is way overpowered but most of you don't see it, because you all chose to gimp yourselves......

One day along time ago a man in open beta who was well respected starting using 2-handed melee, and he claimed that all who did not use 2-handed melee were gimped............ so the entire server starting spreading the lies of 2-handed melee, and so the "un-balance" began......


My character is 1-handed melee, if you compare the best 1-handed weapon with the best 2 handed weapon you will find 2 things, the 1-handed weapon does 30% less dmg than a 2-handed weapon but swings 50% faster so when you do the math 1x.3x1.5 you will see that per minute i do more dmg than you, next you must realize that I can now as a TANK <GASP!!!!!> use a shield so now i'm doing more dmg than a 2-hander and taking 25% less dmg than you are......

Then you need to understand that a nice excellent shield will not only give you great dmg resists but boost your parry by 25-35 points, this means you parry is if you were 20-35 lvls higher..... that alone is amazing.........


Once you are parrying as if you were 35 lvls higher then the "Attack after Parry" credit becomes a very nice option and once you max it out you realize wow i can drop 3 mobs in a row 40 lvls higher than me, and only use 25% of my total stamina..... because you pay with parry credits and not stam credits

Follow that and you'll see how powerful melee really is...... it's 2-handed melee that's gimped not melee in general.........

Watch any great ancient era movie, where they fight with melee weapons, you don't see many 2-handers , but what you do see is fighters with 1-handed weapons and shields, do some research before you start whining.....