Ryzom

manya wrote:Now they are all digged by people who are willing to kill everyone else who comes near I suppose. Where is the fairness in that? But from what I hear, I came to Ryzom only in Jan 05, the PvP areas in PR and Nexus have only been added later. Before, those zones were just very full with aggro mobs. Has *that* change added to the fairness in the regard of who gets those mats?

Thats only true for the PvP enabled roots if you dont want PvP goto the Kitin patrolled ones instead

kwhopper wrote:... I love it. I like group vs. group fightsfor territory/resource control. Capture the flag type battles. All out deathmatch...it's fun. I like encountering someone my level and duking it out for hunting rights in the area...

That is all fine as long as you do it with people who also find it fun. But if I come to hunt in an area that you have just claimed and you tell me to leave or you'll nuke me, there the funs tops. At least for me.

kwhopper wrote:... Fact of the matter is, PvP will be a part of the game. If you don't want to take part, don't...

This is one of the key points of this argument: Don't do it if you don't want to. The problem is, those of us who don't want it are concerned about our ability to not do it. When there is a situation where 'not doing it' depends on other people to respect my decision, not on the game mechanics itself, we feel thretened. I suppose most of us would feel threatened when seeing someone walking on the street with a gun in his hand. He might not have anything bad in mind yet the threat is still seen.

I don't go to PvP area in PR to fight, I go there to dig. I haven't changed my mind about PvP one bit, but there is a risk for me that someone else will change my mind for me. As a principle that is not very nice. I think.

We (the non PvP people) are not very happy with the current PvP zones in PR already. And are even less happy with those faction based PvP zones that have appeared recently. And now it seems like this will be the norm througout the whole of Ryzom. That makes us concerned and we state our concernes, trying to bring up arguments that would show how such a change is not wise. Of course, there are also others who think it will be good changes, so we have a discussion, a long one.

So for the sake of the discussion, let us try a little game. Those in favor of PvP should bring up a few plausible arguments *against* it, just to show they have considered the other side as well.

And those against PvP should state a few good arguments *for* PvP.

And then we could all take a bit of a break, then start thinking about how we will make the Ryzom work in the future. With or without PvP.

kwhopper wrote:Still not a good reason to close the thread. Arguments, no matter if they will result in one side or another agreeing, can be made. If you don't want to see them...don't read the thread.

And no Jyudas doesn't have the best arguments. He represents an extremely close minded and stereotypical point of view in regard to PvP. Saying PvP = ganking is flat out incorrect and ridiculous. is garbage. It, along with many other of his 'points' are overly exaggerated statements used to sway people to his thinking on the matter.

I don't need to check past threads about what PvP does in games. I know first hand, and I love it. I like group vs. group fightsfor territory/resource control. Capture the flag type battles. All out deathmatch...it's fun. I like encountering someone my level and duking it out for hunting rights in the area. No where in there did I say, I like going around finding people lower level than me and killing them and calling them n00bs...because that's not PvP. I will say it again...PvP does not equal ganking and is not destined to become a gank fest.

Fact of the matter is, PvP will be a part of the game. If you don't want to take part, don't. If you feel you must quit the game because players can do what mobs have been doing for a year (kill you), see you later.

You know, you got me convinced

PvP in SoR is gonna be fun! There'll be NO ganking, it will not break up the community, as I mistakenly thought it allready had. I was a fool to think that there would be people who would abuse the PvP system to have fun at the expense of others. I should put more faith in the devs and trust that they can do what no one has done before which is to make an MMO with PvP that actually works.

Further more it is ok to have an endless thread that goes absolutely NO WHERE because both sides are so deeply entrenched they can't hear anything but their own gunfire.

[swerves off topic]

Personaly id rather they leave the PvP zones as they are now -in some of the PR areas , also the correct place for outposts that are taken control of through PvP

Outposts in the other non-PvP regions should have different methods of ownership , maybe co-operatives run through taxs on ppl using the facilitys (stables/hawkers) to pay the guards wages/equip them and built/mantained by crafters dropping outpost parts etc , no one guild would control these , periodic defence would be needed against bandit/mob attacks only , if the outpost was lost it would just need rebuilding/provisioning. There would be no specific reward for these outposts its the use of the facilitys that gives the need/benifit . An outpost of this type that wasnt maintianed would gradualy fall to pieces and eventualy back to a ruined site

For the up coming Faction War id suggest an increase in the PvP area to include a lvl 200 region in each land , id suggest Grove of Umbra / Bounty Beaches and Savage Dunes / Hidden Source thus giving the Kami / Karavan border regoins as conflict zones -fitting in with the story whilst not depriving the locals of all the 200 regions , no need to go full PvP imo (id like the best of both worlds ta )

Edit:- Oh yeah almost forgot i still think you should need good fame with a Tribe/Race that controls any outpost site before you can do anything with it

Like I said, if you don't want to read the thread don't open it. If you think the thread is pointless, you're just causing yourself to get worked up by continually opening it. If all you have to add to a thread is, "please close this" why would you open it more than once?

Whether or not you're convinced is irrelevant. It is something that is coming into the game...deal. I'm just bringing up some things trying to prepare people by dispelling some of the common misconceptions about an open PvP environment/PvP features. Some are very confident in the feeling that PvP will ruin this game utterly and completely. Others are at least willing to give the new system a try and not jump to conclusions. I'm not saying PvP will be THE thing that makes this game. I'm saying I don't think it will be the thing that will ultimately be its undoing and may end up being fun.

kwhopper wrote: Whether or not you're convinced is irrelevant. It is something that is coming into the game...deal. I'm just bringing up some things trying to prepare people by dispelling some of the common misconceptions about an open PvP environment/PvP features. Some are very confident in the feeling that PvP will ruin this game utterly and completely.

Many of us come from come that have open PvP as a primary feature.
Most of the striden opponents of increased PvP in SoR have seen first hand the effects of Open PvP in MMOs.

We do not need "common misconceptions" dispelled. We *know* the reality of it.

We are "very confident in the feeling that PvP will ruin this game" because we have seen what is has done to every other game that has it. We were sick of it there, and that is why we are in Atys.

We know that griefers and gankers abound in a PvP environment. Even the 'good guys' make alts and get in on it, sometimes out of pure frustration. Although in SoR, idiot, childish players are the exception; it takes very few of them to ruin the game for the rest of us.

We do not want SoR to be like every other game. Its uniqueness is what keeps us here. If the game degrades to where the gank-kids start moving in, many of us will simply move on, and let them have it.

There are other games in the world. Some of them might even get the pronouns straight

kwhopper wrote:Saying PvP = ganking is flat out incorrect and ridiculous.

I agree and I'm not sure that anyone has said that.
Non-consensual PvP certainly permits 'ganking', whereas consensual doesn't.

kwhopper wrote: Fact of the matter is, PvP will be a part of the game. If you don't want to take part, don't. If you feel you must quit the game because players can do what mobs have been doing for a year (kill you), see you later.

I think this is the whole reason for this thread. There is this concern, justified in my opinion, that PvP will be implemented whatever any of us thinks or wants. This thread was started to ask "Do we really need it?" and, if so, why?

There are people currently playing Ryzom that either don't want to PvP or won't be able to access content without having to put themselves in PvP zones or switch a PvP flag on. I've yet to see a reason why we should make them or why Ryzom needs PvP.

I think simply saying, "see you later", or, "deal", to these people is a bad thing for the future of Ryzom.

im tired and gonna keep my opinion short and sweet as long as people arent forced into PvP then im happy

enemy123 wrote:im tired and gonna keep my opinion short and sweet as long as people arent forced into PvP then im happy

Quote from Outposts Explained by Xavier Antoviaque

The conflict area is unlimited, the two guilds are in PvP mode everywhere during both attack and defence periods.

If there isn't consent flags for guild members, there is possibility guild members to be forced on PVP, if guild have outpost. Of cause they can quit they guild to avoid this or just go to they own appartment and sit there until these attack and defence periods are over. This can even lead seperation of PvPers and non PvPers from same guild. But I think there is consent flag, so no worriers. =)

You would run and hide instead of supporting your guild? After all, your dappers from digging/crafting/whatever you do for dappers is going into the effort to build/maintain/defend the outpost. You would not even go and heal...show up for moral support to those who would defend what they invested time/dappers into?