kyesmith wrote:Some intresting points being made, and to add to kami/kara imbalence just count how many people involved in this post are kara compared with neutral/kami, proves the whole point being made.
Remove outposts they bring nothing worthwhile to the game except those who reap the reward, they seperate the server and try to turn friends against each other. Plus the "rewards" aint all that great, well not great at all.
It's very interesting that you brought up this point, Kye, and I'm glad you did. My husband and I had a discussion about this very thing the other day, and we compared the situations with Kami/Kara and Outposts to the American Civil War (brother against brother; neighbor against neighbor). The Devs have thrown Atys into a sort of Civil War, and it is up to US how we deal with that. It reminds me of an old cartoon that had a sheepdog watching over the flock, and a wolf that was always trying to eat the sheep. During the day, they were mortal enemies, but when the horn sounded to mark the end of their "shift", they walked away friends, wishing each other a pleasant night and "see you again tomorrow, Fred". I see the same thing with Kami/Kara...during battles they are mortal enemies, but in between they are laughing, joking, even in some cases helping each other level.
Although I don't agree with completely removing Outposts, I do agree that they have brought an unrest across the land of Atys. However, that does coincide with the Lore in that our "people" [read: races] were not "intended" to be all chummy with each other to begin with. That is something the players did themselves. This has been a discussion topic in our guild chat as well - several people in OV were sad to see Infinity disperse and many of them leave....not because "Kara's lost an arch-enemy", but because many in OV lost old *friends*.
It really is amazing how much *one* (albeit large) guild can leave and upset the entire balance in a game. Infinity leaving left a very big hole, which won't be refilled easily. Some may disagree vehemently with me, but I admired Infinity's strength, their conviction, and their talents. They were an awesome guild and I loved to "hate" them very much (virtually speaking), hehehe.
My opinion in this matter (ie: Outposts and faction pvp) may be somewhat biased due to the fact that I've only been playing the game with these things in place. I was not here prior to their implementation, so I can only base my opinions on what I have seen so far. However, with saying that, I have to also say that when I first came to the Ryzom site in my search for a new game to play, it was the Outposts and factional "tensions" that drew my attention and made me want to try the game. I've been hooked ever since, even though I think there are many things that need to be modified to make Outposts more desireable, and "fair".
I do not profess to have the answers to our dilemma. I have given this issue considerable thought and I simply can not come up with an idea to make "Outposts" et al better. I just know that I would not like to see them simply "removed". All I can do, is read what others suggest and either agree or disagree. I have not seen a suggestion in this thread yet, that I could agree to.
The only suggestion (so far) that I've seen made that held any weight for me was that Outposts be made truely GvG....one guild fighting one guild. However, with deeper thought I realize this would not work either. Not only because smaller guilds would *really* have no "hope" then, but because of the potential exploitation that could occur. For instance, what would stop a small guild from simply convincing their allies to drop their guild and join the fighting guild just for the time it takes to win the battle? In addition to this possibility, making Outposts strictly GvG would encourage "blind recruiting" by guilds (where their only concern is quantity and not quality)...and IMO, that is never a "good" thing.
What horrifies me is if Spires come out before we can resolve the issue of Outposts. I know that many of the HO's in OV are equally concerned (yet I will let them speak for themselves) - although "power" can be fun for those that have it, it can be utterly game-breaking for those that do not, and that hurts all of us in the end. No one...I repeat...no one wants to see other players driven away from the game. IMO, if I understand how Spires are going to be, that is exactly what could happen.
So what I'd suggest is that we put our Kami/Karavan/Neutral emotions aside and continue to maturely discuss how we can make Outposts better for all of us. Regardless of whether the devs intended OP's to be FvF or GvG is no longer the issue....players made that ultimate decision and turned them into a FvF battle - so let's work with that and restore balance within Atys so all factions have an equal
opportunity to hold that balance. Please notice I used the term: "opportunity"....not "god-given right".
I would also like to think people who are not firmly a fraction wont pick the fraction that seems easier and more powerful. Kami have proved themselves very will in my departure, unity and friendship is what will win the war (kami/kara PvP "practises" in ykr have shown we will just have to put in that extra bit of work. But the larger guilds need to put more in... soul are filling the void left by infinity good job guys, MoV will be by yourside)