Ryzom

madnak, noone here is arguing for free open or unrestricted pvp...

micrix wrote:Wow, some of you ppl know a lot about games. Not me for sure. But from my view it should be possible. Why not design new elements for both, PvP and PvE.

Outpost could have both. An outpost can be a fortress to defend against PvP challanges but they could also be farms with Kitins/Bandits coming from time to time for the farmed produce. As long as a group (guild) owning an outpost can decline a PvP challenge this concept seems to be suitable for PvP and PvE players.

This also would give PvE players the possibility to accept "sometimes" a PvP challange. Off course should a guild loose one chance of decline when they attacked another outpost earlier.

You are right, they can have both with correct design, but it's very hard to do without causing unhappiness to someone. Cost would be separation of these different playing styles. This includes the benefit from Outposts for players. And after all of this some players with they playing style will still be unhappy. It's just, does it make majority happy?

Why is PvP always overly simplified into ganking and griefing on these forums? On a server of several hundreds, I'd even say thousands (where opposing factions REALLY don't like each other)...how often do I get killed by someone who is completely out of my level range? Once, maybe twice...a week. That's right, 2 times in a 7 day period, some player decides that I am not fit to live and kills me even though I'm 30+ levels below them. For the most part people like to PvP for a fun challenge. Give those people ways to achieve that and the desire to randomly kill everyone you see lessens significantly. Outposts seem like a way that will help those with PvP needs. Hopefully they will add more facets to the feature, but at least it's a step in the right direction.

michielb wrote:Could someone please close this thread: it's making me look for an other game to play...

If you feel you must...leave. No reason to close a thread because it's about a topic you don't like.

PvP is great and i love it gimme more please but should make it so ya cant kill ya own fraction maybe for PR

kwhopper wrote:Why is PvP always overly simplified into ganking and griefing on these forums? On a server of several hundreds, I'd even say thousands (where opposing factions REALLY don't like each other)...how often do I get killed by someone who is completely out of my level range? Once, maybe twice...a week. That's right, 2 times in a 7 day period, some player decides that I am not fit to live and kills me even though I'm 30+ levels below them. For the most part people like to PvP for a fun challenge. Give those people ways to achieve that and the desire to randomly kill everyone you see lessens significantly. Outposts seem like a way that will help those with PvP needs. Hopefully they will add more facets to the feature, but at least it's a step in the right direction.

Even getting killed one time, could be too much for players, who don't wanna be part of PvP. Do people really think that it's fun to be victim for PvPers?

There isn't anyting wrong wanting more fun for PvPers. Outposts seem to be good ways to help PvPers desire. Yes, it's right step to make Saga of Ryzom as PvP game.

Qestion is, what kind of player base Ryzom has now and is't wise for Nevrax to provide content for two different player base. Players are very sensitive for changes. Usually they don't like changed what are caused by other playing styles. Example balance changed.

Indeed some developers believe in the RPG with "freedom". But you know that Morrowind is far from free. For a basic player, you only have the main plot and a few parallel quests. For a more involved player, you have stories and lots of parallel quests evolving all around a main story, and if paying attention a second way to "beat the game" without following the main story. Finally for a few hardcore players with more talent, there's the world editor (TESCS). If you look carefully, how many player really reach the freedom given by the TESCS? Not a lot.

And for linear/non-linear war, remember that Final Fantasy and Seiken Densetsu series always worked when linear (very linear), and didn't work when freedom was given to the player like for Isle of Mana.
So basically I'm really not against giving player more freedom, but first of all it's always in the limits of the code contrary to the pen&paper games, and secondly it is a dream of developers that are people with more imagination than the average and would like to give other people with such imagination the possibility to express it. But they often forget they have to eat and that lots of players don't have the imagination requiered nor the shoulders to bear a totally free world. They wouldn't know what to do and would feel very uncomfortable.

R² is a bet on players with enough imagination and will to create a part of the game by themselves. I hope it'll work, and I encourage this bet on intelligence.



And sorry if I misunderstood, but I read that grimjim was against any form of PvP. He's saying that choice is wrong and never works.
Of course I'm not for rubbish PvP without rule. I'm just arguing that SoR needs a kind of PvP.
Also I'm not saying that playing a character that refuse violence is not good (but it's even funnier if there's PvP btw). Thank you to learn me that I can emote *giggles* or *shakes her fist with anger*, I never RPed.


*drives her sword into his belly*
You're dead.

Oh that's poweremote! naughty naughty!
Emotes have a limit. But I guess we should use /random when two characters are upset and can't seem to agree.

Soooo PvP isn't all what RP needs, PvP isn't only RP, RP isn't only PvP... but RP needs PvP. A well-thought one.




Ps: the zun problem reminds me a thread on french boards where someone was saying: "That's awful, we were killing Kinkoo to get some Zun, and a guild waited we killed it to come and steal our Zun ". Then he said it would have been better if it was PvP area. If he wins the PvP, he gets the Zun, if he looses then bye-bye that's the game. But it was suddenly impossible to prevent the other guild to take Zun finger in the nose.
I think I could do more damage with non-PvP ruleset in terms of griefing than you with a PvP ruleset

kwhopper wrote:If you feel you must...leave. No reason to close a thread because it's about a topic you don't like.

Fair comment I suppose but my remark wasn't because I don't like the topic.

I don't like PvP and for that I have my reasons. I wanted to close the thread because no one here is gonna convice anyone, not even J even though he has the best arguements. And that's what bugs me most about this whole PvP thing: as soon as you allow it, it no longer matters whether you are right or wrong all that matters is who has the bigger gun...

As I said before, if you want to see what PvP in an MMO leads to check previous threads about PvP (if they haven't been deleted yet due to excessive flaming) and remember that we probably have the best comunity of any MMO currently out there but even here we have a few rotten apples waiting to contaminate the rest of the basket...

**** wrote:I think I could do more damage with non-PvP ruleset in terms of griefing than you with a PvP ruleset

That's true, you can do plenty of griefing without PvP if you want to. The Code of Conduct exists precisely to prevent sociopathic behaviour like that from spoiling other players' fun. Add a non-consensual PvP area and you're saying, "this area is exempt from the CoC and griefing is ok here".

uhuhu wrote:themac and me open fire on saranda when supreme is gone... when they dig exce zun amber!

You seem to conveniently forget that you also attacked someone else digging supreme zun amber and were responsible for the loss that smolfine is talking about. Maybe you are getting your summers confused.

You see, ****, our server unfortunately has l33t kiddies. If we were all grown-ups then I agree 100%, all out PvP would be great. Many adults have matured past the stage of thinking that 'might is right'. As long as some of us need a parent's hand then we have to think of things from that perspective.

shhh - i'll attack every Karavan in PR ! Where is the probleme? I AM PROUD

Some people dont like PvP, it's your choice! i don't criticize it! Some people like PvP, it's our choice! so, dont criticize and cry in forum "oinnnn oinnn, have been killed in Prime Root " "when you enter in PvP zone, you have 30 sec for stay in or for left and they said: "you're now in PvP zone.." - So, if ya dont agree with the PvP rules, you can go dig in safe Roots (200 zone: abyss of ichor - 250 zone: wastelands or us) but stop CRY in forum.