PvP, the devil: or (to P or not to P?)

[mitijea]

Except furries, everyone looks down on furries.

Going way off topic here, but:

Ah, come on man, what could possibly be wrong with furries? Some of my favorite characters have been furries - what would life have been like without looney tunes? I remember wanting to be Bugs Bunny when I grew up - he's one cool rabbit, he is.

Coming back on topic:

IMO if you think high level items are hard to get now in the shops, wait until PvP is rampant. Who is going to want the competition getting any of the better weapons or armor when it will only be used against them? Same will go for jewelery and materials. I think that any guild serious about the competition would be in their right to put pressure on any members selling this stuff. One member shouldn't profit from an action that puts the whole guild at risk.

At the same time, if any good stuff makes it to the market, I wouldn't put it past a rich guild to buy them all up as quickly and as often as possibe, even if all they do is destroy the items (if they cannot use them). The money spent could well be worth it in the long run if it keeps the other less experienced guilds from building up their own arsenal. Sure, in the long run, any guild should be able to eventually make their own stuff, but until they can harvest/loot the best materials and have the experienced crafters, they will be at a distinct disadvantage. If a guild can control both the best resources (through PvP) and the stores for anything that leaks through, then there might be nothing to stop them (or at least slow them for quite some time).

Oh, and another thing: Non guildmate groups - that is bad for so many reasons. Shouldn't be helping the competition level up, nor find good hunting/harvesting locations, nor teaching them your fighting techniques... I could go on and on about this. Really, a serious PvPer should never group with anyone outside their guild (well, unless you are spying; that might work...hmmm). Okay maybe there are some advantages, if you play it right.

[vguerin]

IMO if you think high level items are hard to get now in the shops, wait until PvP is rampant. Who is going to want the competition getting any of the better weapons or armor when it will only be used against them? Same will go for jewelery and materials. I think that any guild serious about the competition would be in their right to put pressure on any members selling this stuff. One member shouldn't profit from an action that puts the whole guild at risk.

At the same time, if any good stuff makes it to the market, I wouldn't put it past a rich guild to buy them all up as quickly and as often as possibe, even if all they do is destroy the items (if they cannot use them). The money spent could well be worth it in the long run if it keeps the other less experienced guilds from building up their own arsenal. Sure, in the long run, any guild should be able to eventually make their own stuff, but until they can harvest/loot the best materials and have the experienced crafters, they will be at a distinct disadvantage. If a guild can control both the best resources (through PvP) and the stores for anything that leaks through, then there might be nothing to stop them (or at least slow them for quite some time).

Oh, and another thing: Non guildmate groups - that is bad for so many reasons. Shouldn't be helping the competition level up, nor find good hunting/harvesting locations, nor teaching them your fighting techniques... I could go on and on about this. Really, a serious PvPer should never group with anyone outside their guild (well, unless you are spying; that might work...hmmm). Okay maybe there are some advantages, if you play it right.

OMG OMG OMG

Without a SIG I am gonna swear you have stole my DT/Melinoe persona... friends and enemy alike have seen me say this for WELL over a year...

GIVING stuff away cheap makes potential enemies stronger... if they do not follow Jena they should pay higher prices or not have access to Karavan wares.

DoubleTap IC believes this absolutely... Melinoe holds many of these values as well as supporting the rest of our awesome High Council... I applaud you, I believe this mindset makes for a better game for all... "I" take nothing away from anyone else gameplay (Hell, my wife dont like my role in SoR... I have ALWAYS been a Paladin type in the past)... We all need to play our game and respect other gameplay types...

Unlike some... I believe you want to quiet those you dont agree with, you become better than them at it... poems wont stop your azz beating... preparation will !
___________________
DoubleTap - Disciple of Jena - Master Swordsman
Matis Dual Blader & Medium Gladiator Champion (Undefeated)
Member of Team Melinoe, Matis 5V5 Champions (Undefeated)
Click here to join Melinoe or read Ultimate Harvesting Guide
Melinoe - Atys Harvesters http://ryzom.twazz.net/
WWJD - What Would Jena Do ?

[aelvana]

One thing that made PvP so much fun on the MUDs I played was that you could get to max level (50) in days or weeks of hardcore play, and then take part in the more active fun game that everyone was doing.

In Ryzom one on one fights are mostly pointless, but team play is great.

Just a random thought.

[bobturke]

Might be a bit late for this but tough.

Turke, why did you had to go out and make the exact same post I was planning on typing somewhere today?

To save you the work so you would give me a discount on my next HA set

If you check the last "Pvp report" thread, the killer didnt like having their name on the forums... well suits him right. If we all just shut up about it people will go on doing what they please then call who speaks whiners, when they are the offending ones. If people got reasons to do stuff like going after one another they can answer in the forums too, but giving "server fame" imunity to pvp'ers is just wrong

For the record I didn't think the "Pvp report" your mention was a whine. As the poster said several times, they weren't complaining just warning others.

If it's going open PvP, I hope Nevrax are *real* careful about how they state as much and don't really let players just have at it with no restrictions - or that they place very clear and firm anti-griefing/ganking rules in place. Given what I've seen from the Ryzom community as it is now, they're looking to lose alot more players if they're not careful with how they implement PvP and let gankers/griefers run rampant with impunity.

I don't think Nevrax are planning on going open PVP are they?

Another thought for the poster/s who say more PVP will destroy Ryzom as most of the players don't like it and leave. The exact same thing was said before they introduced the current PVP in PR areas (I should know I was one of them saying it). Guess what, Ryzom didn't stop. Players didn't leave in droves. New players didn't leave saying "we love the game but it has PVP so we're leaving". They still say similar things like "looks great but seems to be missing decent quests", "wheres the content?", "where is everyone?", etc).

PVP is certainly a topic to get people posting...

[akm72]

One thing that made PvP so much fun on the MUDs I played was that you could get to max level (50) in days or weeks of hardcore play, and then take part in the more active fun game that everyone was doing.

Got to ask. Why bother with the lvl'ing bit at all? Why not have people enter the game at the max level, so they can get straight on with the fun bit, without having to go through the boring grind up through 50 lvl's?

[hans1976]

Got to ask. Why bother with the lvl'ing bit at all? Why not have people enter the game at the max level, so they can get straight on with the fun bit, without having to go through the boring grind up through 50 lvl's?

Lessons. It is to teach one how to use all that power.

[larwood]

Got to ask. Why bother with the lvl'ing bit at all? Why not have people enter the game at the max level, so they can get straight on with the fun bit, without having to go through the boring grind up through 50 lvl's?

Hey, I personally think that going through the levels is fun and invigorating. Progressing, to where you can handle the next q gear or get the next spells. Its a challenge the entire way, and can be very fun.

I think its just how you approach it. A game where you start at max lvl... well, go play counterstrike or another PvP game... Ryzom is not that.

edit: you were being sarcastic? I read your post and who you were replying to... ah well.

[akm72]

edit: you were being sarcastic? I read your post and who you were replying to... ah well.

Not exactly. I'm new to MMORPGs, but I am coming to the opinion that levels and PVP don't mix well. This might be exagerated by the SoR combat system, where you can barely hit anyone more than a couple of dozen lvl's higher than yourself; while they are able to both take and give more damage. This results in the effect that solo high lvl characters could probably take on entire squads of lowbies in PVP and win (in fact it might be interesting to see how many lvl 50-100 fighters are needed to take on a single lvl 200-250 fighter - baring in mind that lvl 50-100 fighters are supposed to be competant). To me, this just feels kinda dumb, and not fun at all. One of the things I was interesting in looking at in SoR was how PVP would work - so far, I'm not very impressed. So I was wondering why, in a PVP-optimised MMOG/MUD, you would bother with lvl's at all. Especially if you just grind your way through them in a few days/weeks to get to the "real" game.

[grimjim]

Not exactly. I'm new to MMORPGs, but I am coming to the opinion that levels and PVP don't mix well. This might be exagerated by the SoR combat system, where you can barely hit anyone more than a couple of dozen lvl's higher than yourself; while they are able to both take and give more damage. This results in the effect that solo high lvl characters could probably take on entire squads of lowbies in PVP and win (in fact it might be interesting to see how many lvl 50-100 fighters are needed to take on a single lvl 200-250 fighter - baring in mind that lvl 50-100 fighters are supposed to be competant). To me, this just feels kinda dumb, and not fun at all. One of the things I was interesting in looking at in SoR was how PVP would work - so far, I'm not very impressed. So I was wondering why, in a PVP-optimised MMOG/MUD, you would bother with lvl's at all. Especially if you just grind your way through them in a few days/weeks to get to the "real" game.

Yeah, I think my holy grail of MMORPGs is a skill based one where, after creating your character they DON'T SUBSTANTIALLY CHANGE!

Where the difference in skill isn't a completely crippling issue when it comes to combat and its more to do with equipment and familiarity with the system.

A sufficiently deep MMO character creation system would give plenty of options for having different characters but everyone would be able to compete on an even basis.

[shippou]

Not much time to post, but I did want to insert some thoughts on PvP.

First off, I don't PvP much at all, because it's not anything which has interested me to this point. I much prefer cooperative play.

However, I do see a role for PvP that benefits the community in general. There is good PvP and bad PvP. The high-level 1337 kiddies knocking over a digger or caravan of travellers in Roots without warning is bad PvP.

Good PvP requires that the conflict be consensual at some level. It may be a tournament intended as a friendly competition with a guild, or between guilds. It could be an ongoing "rivalry" or "war" between two
consenting guilds that is played out at all times. Or it might be a one-time mock battle set up, where each side has a goal, and rules agreed upon before starting.

I have commonly seen one-on-one battles where both sides are fighting for the sake of pride, or to determine how strong they are in a skill, sometimes handicapped in favor of the weaker. Such battles are usually a friendly way to pass time while waiting.

But the key to PvP playing a positive role in the game is that all sides must show respect; towards teammates, towards opponents, and towards those who wish to remain uninvolved in the conflict. If respect is shown all-around, there will be no permanent enemies, and all will likely enjoy their time, no matter what the end result.