Ryzom

tryzovia wrote:P.S. just for avoiding a misunderstanding, I was a part of the ryzom community from october 2004 to early 2006 on the Luinil acount. I just use this acount because I can't reactivate my older one, but I'm still looking at ryzom since I stop playing.

Luinil

Doesn't matter, some will ignore this and call you one of 'them' anyway.
It's easier to validate a point of view if you're not considered a member of the community.

It's an old tradition found everywhere around the world tho.
During the cold war you could eat applepie, cry during the anthem and have drinks with the president, but as soon as you start talking nonsense like "I've been looking at communism, but I think it's not bad, just badly excecuted. We could make it work tho." you're stop being 'one of us' and start being 'one of them' (or a red ******* commi).
Cause then when you arrest the guy, you don't have to explain why you're abusing a fellow american, cause he ain't handy eh?

So don't worry when they start trampling on your appreciation for Ryzom and dismis all your arguments.
The only problem is, is that some are out to get threads about free ryzom locked and troll their heads of trying to aggravate people enough to lash out.

Stay calm, and don't let the trolls win.

tryzovia wrote:Why they should buy ryzom? I think it's for expending their business in the mmorpg. so ryzom would continue. But the question I'm asking is for who will they develop the game? Ryzom community or their own playerbase? I think we should think about that.
The problem with the .org challenger is that we don't know anything about him. It's said to be GameForge, but even if this is true, what do they wan't to do with the game?
Don't make the mistake to think that a company wan't to buy ryzom for ryzom good, it wants to buy it for it's own good.

Maybe the new company continues ryzom, but don't develop it. Maybe they want transform Ryzom in a desktop game for the Nintendo Wii. Maybe.

But a feature of almost every MMORPG is the continuous development. And, the good gor the company is the good for Ryzon, at least in a few lines (The bigger community the best), so the development will be there. Yo know, sometimes the enterprises are good, or at least favorable.

tryzovia wrote:Doesn't matter, some will ignore this and call you one of 'them' anyway.
It's easier to validate a point of view if you're not considered a member of the community.

There is a thing called "qualified opinion". Isn't the same a two weeks player than a year one. Undestand the game and the community takes some time. Of course you can blindly defend your own interest without knowing nothing of this, but noone has said that (And I respect that point of view, at least lacks hipocresy)

tryzovia wrote: During the cold war you could eat applepie, cry during the anthem and have drinks with the president, but as soon as you start talking nonsense like "I've been looking at communism, but I think it's not bad, just badly excecuted. We could make it work tho." you're stop being 'one of us' and start being 'one of them' (or a red ******* commi).
Cause then when you arrest the guy, you don't have to explain why you're abusing a fellow american, cause he ain't handy eh?

Oh! Tales! pretty!

As far as you've telling comunism-related histories, I'll tell a experience of me.

When in a anarquist communa you have a meet of all people for decisions of what to do, everyone, from inside or outside can speak freely. But there is a concepr, "Partial speech". The people involved with an aspect, but no with the communa, are partially speechers, as far as they will not be interest in the communa as a whole, and probably will left the communa if it not takes the decisions they wont. And, as far as I can see, this is the way here, a lot of new people comes to make his speech; that's fine for me, but, please, don't try to get the same attention that other old (and still here for months or years) members, as long as they interest in Ryzom, as it is now, is well-know, and no so the new people.

I think is partial speech what we have here. I'm not blaming anyone, just exposing a theory. A very left-wing theory, by the way (I can't stand it, I'm have the left-wing in the blood )

I commend you to read Confessions of a revolucionary, from Pierre-Joseph Proudhon, if you want know more about this.

mithur wrote:Maybe the new company continues ryzom, but don't develop it. Maybe they want transform Ryzom in a desktop game for the Nintendo Wii. Maybe.

But a feature of almost every MMORPG is the continuous development. And, the good gor the company is the good for Ryzon, at least in a few lines (The bigger community the best), so the development will be there. Yo know, sometimes the enterprises are good, or at least favorable.

This is why I'm in favor of that free Ryzom thing.

mithur wrote:There is a thing called "qualified opinion". Isn't the same a two weeks player than a year one.

No, you got me wrong or at least I brought it wrong. I meant that you can 'label' ANYONE as 'one of them' to validate a point.
It's clear to me you've been part of the Ryzom community a lot longer then me. So if I was against the Free Ryzom project and you in favor, I could do the following:
(warning, following statements are not my opinion, it's just a demonstration people)
Mithur, you and your ryzom.org people should stop this adverticing of such an ill-fated plan. I think I speak for all of us when I say your behaviour does not speak well for your project.
(ok, end of demonstration, you can all move on now)

See how I try to create the illusion of being part of a group?
And how I place you inside a group you have nothing to do with?
There are people on this forum that do that just to validate their point.
They pull you out of the Ryzom player group and place you in the 'one of them' pile because they think that if you're a Ryzom player, you can't possibly like the 'free ryzom' idea.
So if you express an intrest or a liking to the idea, you get attacked like that.

Now I'm maybe not that big of a player like most people, but I like Ryzom.
And I also like the constant development that is going on in open source projects.
I myself am working on a application that uses open source material (lgpl mind you) so I'm constantly discussing the project on the irc-channel. Often I ask how to implement something, but sometimes I bring a shortcoming to light. When I do that the people who are working on that perticular part of the project simply start working on it.
A few weeks ago I tried to use a perticular plugin that didn't seem to work right. So after a few minutes of trying they concluded that it wasn't properly patched to the next version and asked if I would report it in their bug-report site. The next day I found the new version of that plugin in the cvs and could continue with my app.

I like this and the way anyone can write someting new for the project.

mithur wrote: Oh! Tales! pretty!
As far as you've telling comunism-related histories, I'll tell a experience of me.

your reply to the communism thing seems to indicate that you're asuming it's a metaphore for Ryzom.org, this is not why I mentioned it.
I mentioned it to demonstrate how you can validate an opinion by alienating your target by labeling it.

vardarac wrote:This is why I'm in favor of that free Ryzom thing.

This is why I'm not. I think that Ryzom.org will bring more changes (In the bad sense of the word) than a company. Like the merge of servers, for a start.

vardarac wrote: No, you got me wrong or at least I brought it wrong. I meant that you can 'label' ANYONE as 'one of them' to validate a point.
It's clear to me you've been part of the Ryzom community a lot longer then me. So if I was against the Free Ryzom project and you in favor, I could do the following:
(warning, following statements are not my opinion, it's just a demonstration people)
Mithur, you and your ryzom.org people should stop this adverticing of such an ill-fated plan. I think I speak for all of us when I say your behaviour does not speak well for your project.
(ok, end of demonstration, you can all move on now)

There are people in favour of Ryzom.org, long-time member of this community, and that's ok. The problem was (and, while I'm not with the brawl and flamefest, I understand it) that some people very new come here saying something like "Hey, men, this is a open source project, how you can be agaisnt it? are you dumb?" . Well... this annoyed a lot of people. As far as I've read you, you arent one of this. At least, you argument.

vardarac wrote: See how I try to create the illusion of being part of a group?
And how I place you inside a group you have nothing to do with?
There are people on this forum that do that just to validate their point.
They pull you out of the Ryzom player group and place you in the 'one of them' pile because they think that if you're a Ryzom player, you can't possibly like the 'free ryzom' idea.

Partial speech. If you come here for the Free Soft Ryzom, probably you are more biased to the Free Soft than Ryzom. If you have been playing for months or years, you can prefer Ryzom.org (And with some people this happen) and your speech is fully qualified. At least for me.

vardarac wrote: (...)I myself am working on a application that uses open source material (lgpl mind you) so I'm constantly discussing the project on the irc-channel. Often I ask how to implement something, but sometimes I bring a shortcoming to light. When I do that the people who are working on that perticular part of the project simply start working on it.
A few weeks ago I tried to use a perticular plugin that didn't seem to work right. So after a few minutes of trying they concluded that it wasn't properly patched to the next version and asked if I would report it in their bug-report site. The next day I found the new version of that plugin in the cvs and could continue with my app.

I like this and the way anyone can write someting new for the project.

I'm group leader of development in my work, and I've released a number of projects in OpenSource Licenses, and collaborate in some GPL projects. I know the world.

A common mistake in the Free Soft world is that there are a lot of structural elitism from the devs. if you are a dev, you'll be allowed to change things, and you'll have a lot of weight in the development. if you have ideas, but you aren't a dev, you'll have a lot less weight.

More of the people in Ryzom.com aren't devs, most of people coming from free Soft world are. That's an important difference.

In a Free Soft iniciative, all people are equal. But the Devs are more equal than the rest.

And that's my personal experience.

vardarac wrote: your reply to the communism thing seems to indicate that you're asuming it's a metaphore for Ryzom.org, this is not why I mentioned it.
I mentioned it to demonstrate how you can validate an opinion by alienating your target by labeling it.

You are good in argument manipulation (And that's a compliment). I know is not a metaphore for Ryzom.org. I've used the word tale because I don't know a better one, blame my bad english for this.

And my tale is only a part of political theory that I think apllies to this situation. Only that. The same like yours, by the way. You are saying that the argument they use is a disqualified argument, and I try to demonstrate the validity of the argument. Nothing more.

mithur wrote:This is why I'm not. I think that Ryzom.org will bring more changes (In the bad sense of the word) than a company. Like the merge of servers, for a start.

Good point. I'm going to ask about that one on the ryzom.org irc channel.

People at #ryzom.org pointed me at: http://wiki.ryzom.org/en/index.php/English_FAQ
Q: Will you start off with only one shard / server?
A: First it will be necessary to keep renting the servers at Jolt, which is a quite important cost, to avoid stopping the service (this is not including the customer-support service currently also provided by Jolt). This situation would last 3 months, which is the necessary time for Valentin Lacambre (a web hosting specialist) to setup a cheaper internal solution. Once past these 3 months, we will probably chose to have only one multilingual shard/server online. We want to run a tight shop initially, so the project will have long viability. There would be nothing worse than bringing too many servers online and then have to take them down, because we aimed to high, too fast. Once a sufficient number of people are registered on the server, we will open new servers.

mithur wrote:You are saying that the argument they use is a disqualified argument, and I try to demonstrate the validity of the argument. Nothing more.

I just don't like it when labeling is used to convince people.

Last discussion someone accused me of being a member of the company behind ryzom.org and that I should get off the forum and stop trying to advertice.
Made me gnash my teeth.

Great reply on your part btw.

Regarding this whole thing, I was wondering:

We were granted a freem month of play (thanks kindly) but I guess this was done also guessing that a finall decision would be made in December (early, or late). According to latest news, this is being delayed, let's hope that we get some news this week.

Let's imagine that, for some reason, it is delayed till early January (xmas holidays). What happens next? who is assuming the costs (let's say as a sample figure 20k € hosting and other expenses like GMs etc.)? Are they being considered as Nevrax debts? Is this policy of "no subscription fee" going to be applied also for January? Is there a risk of "downtime"? (I don't think Jolt, although maybe willing, is able to keep on hosting on a pro-bono) so servers going down till the buyer resumes operation?

iphdrunk wrote:Regarding this whole thing, I was wondering:

We were granted a freem month of play (thanks kindly) but I guess this was done also guessing that a finall decision would be made in December (early, or late). According to latest news, this is being delayed, let's hope that we get some news this week.

Let's imagine that, for some reason, it is delayed till early January (xmas holidays). What happens next? who is assuming the costs (let's say as a sample figure 20k € hosting and other expenses like GMs etc.)? Are they being considered as Nevrax debts? Is this policy of "no subscription fee" going to be applied also for January? Is there a risk of "downtime"? (I don't think Jolt, although maybe willing, is able to keep on hosting on a pro-bono) so servers going down till the buyer resumes operation?

That definitly sounds possible to me but without offical news on it we're just guessing. What we might be able to find out though ... if the decission is delayed past this week is the court open next week? I know most jobs are shutting up for that week here but I have no idea about courts here or France.

mithrur => I did not tell that a company is bad, but I think as we dont know what are their plans for the game (good or bad) we can't make a choice. And this like of information is domagable I think.

Iphdrunk => I don't know, I suppose it depends on french justice. But as you (and everyone i think) I wish they will be as quick as possible.

For the servers, the last I had been told, his that they wan't to keep the 3 servers running (French, German and English) if it's possible. A merge is very complicated and it seems it won't be a so good option after all.

And my ps was just to prevent accusation of being a .org fanatist comming here only to make some propaganda. First I am a ryzom community member (even if I stop playing some month ago).

Luinil

Gameforge wins, Ryzom.org loose (we all loose).

Have a nice life on Atys dear friends. It has been a pleasure to know you all for the past 2.5 years. Me and my children are logging out.

My dream was always freedom, I guess I failed and you guys get what you wanted.

Gameforge.de will be the new owner.

edit : (uhuh I am not fast enough)