Xavier's still at it :)

[desdi]

i guess we didn't say it loud enough:

Yes! It was a mistake to send the message to about a hundred persons ( far less than the player database ).
But it is the mistake of one man and this is a communautary projet so will you please use valid arguments instead of camping behind this one?

Thanks.



ps:
Btw if people here didn't already know the csr supporting jolt here I guess they can make a few guesses from the people posting on this topic ^^. Please do renember we are all here to support ryzom. Jolt is not that bad there objective are clear: money not animation. And they ( well the volunteer ) are good at support, we expect just more than support and cheaper, is it that wrong? And making money from the work of volunteer can't be wrong, can it?

[totnkopf]

As far as I know no one of the csr work for jolt. they are just volunteers...

they're being 'paid', as someone pointed out already, with a free sub... that means they're officially employees, even if they don't earn hard cash. I'm willing to bet that if the laws over there are anything like they are here, all the CSRs sign a contract and are considered actual employees of Jolt as they are receiving some sort of 'pay' (in the form of a sub)

First we do not know why he has been fired. Yes he took some of the email adresses, it was wrong, he recognise his errors. And I ask you if you can make the organisation you ask from him in less thant 2 weeks...

So you're saying he can't act under pressure? or at least not in a competent matter? There was a need to hurry, yes, but to do it in such a soddily manner only illustrates that they either don't have any real experience with organization and running a business or they just didn't care enough. Take your pick.

For me organisating a plan to submit to the judge, in less than 2 weeks it's a good ting. Think of what they can do with a month?

split into another 7 entities? gonna have to agree with Jyudas, its crap from the start.... hard to build on that.
two weeks is a lot of time. You make it seem like its really short. Its not. not in the business world. Thats more than enough time to create a business plan, have it looked over by a legal team to make sure its solid, tweak it, set up a hierchy of whos in charge and titles, gain funding, etc... as it is, not much of that was done in a timely manner. They're still all over the place with the creation of the company(-ies) themselves, let alone whos doing what.

[kaetemi]

(spam being unapproved email).

So, if I'd send you an e-mail without asking you first to allow me to send you an e-mail, you can sue me? Do I need your written permission? In that case, does the same apply for writing letters, do I need to ask you before I can ask you for permission to send you an e-mail?

Sorry, but I don't call a few mails to a group of people spam when the receivers know the sender and there is nothing being advertised. What I do call spam, are all these freakin blog services and whatever else that keep sending me an e-mail about the same thing more than once.

[praha]

I do it shows how their moral compass works and I can say its not working very well. It was a bonehead move and that was only the beginning of the project if a guy is so brainless as to do something that is considered a crime in many countries now then how on earth is he gonna manage to deal with ryzom ....

I'd say that sums up how I feel in a nutshell.

[totnkopf]

i guess we didn't say it loud enough:

Yes! It was a mistake to send the message to about a hundrer persons ( far less than the player database ).
But it is the mistake of one man and this is a communautary projet so will you please use valid arguments instead of camping behind this one?

Yet the criminal is one of the people leading the project. If he was willing to play dirty just to TRY and get his project off the ground, how low is willing to go to keep people playing it?

ps:
Btw if ppl here didn't already now the csr supporting jolt here I guess they can make a few guesses from the people posting there ^^. Jolt is not that bad there objective are clear: money not animation. And making money from the work of volunteer can't be wrong, can it?

I don't work for Jolt. I don't CSR. I wouldn't go near that headache, even if they DID offer to pay... plus I'm so unbiased
The people VOLUNTEER... if they didn't want to help out, they'd simply say "no thanks" and thats that. You make it seem like Jolt is out to steal money from Nevrax or the player base, but it seems to me that they simply want payment for services rendered. They host the servers, keep the game up and running, manage the CSRs, admin the forums, etc. They are doing things for which they are paid a fee for. In turn, they PAY the CSRs with a free sub

[ummax]

i guess we didn't say it loud enough:

Yes! It was a mistake to send the message to about a hundrer persons ( far less than the player database ).
But it is the mistake of one man and this is a communautary projet so will you please use valid arguments instead of camping behind this one?

Thanks.

I'm sorry but sending spam which can get their ip address blocked and stealing private information (we dont know its just the email addresses it could be more) is plenty reason to stay away from it. That was more then just a little mistake it was a massive show of incompetance and now your gonna say that the people backing this are competant all of a sudden. Okay until the next piece of stupidity shows up.. the financial plan which sucked.. followed by we are still waiting for those three things to go away and the thing has only be around for what a week or two? how many bits of information proving you are not capable of doing something does one need as proof?

Also the website to this project isn't up half the time that's problem number 4 and again its only been a couple of weeks.

I'm sorry but if this person for heading up this project after doing this in any business manner at all i would laugh in his face and look elsewhere.

As a member of the ryzom community I can safely say that if there is a non profit project to be run I dont want this guy and his fanbase to be in control of it thanks...

get back to us when you can present it properly

-set up a proper impartial board of directors to make decisions (unpaid of course and voted in)
-set up a proper website with enough bandwidth to make it "go" (not hard it would cost a few out of pocket dollars to do that with any hosting company)
-find legitimate and legal means to diseminate that information
-write proposals that make sense and that have some meat in in the sandwich so far all I see is two pieces of wordy bread
-try not to break anymore laws while your at it

[iphdrunk]

Btw if people here didn't already know the csr supporting jolt here I guess they can make a few guesses from the people posting on this topic ^^.

I am not a Jolt CSR, keep on guessing then. Maybe you guess too much? That guess is as bold as stating that any poster supporting the ORG project has shares at the investors company...

Please do renember we are all here to support ryzom. Jolt is not that bad there objective are clear: money not animation.

This is precisely what I am starting to think about the investors of the ORG project ^^ and the "for profit" nature. I have been posting about concerns some people have and that go unanswered:
* Will english be the default language for events and support?
* Can a single shard host 3 communities knowing that it was stated that Cho was open mainly for scalability issues?
* Will there be full time 24h/7 support?, including events adapted to North American timezones?
* Will the money of subscriptions invested fully in full time developers, servers and hosting, billing outsourcing and similar costs, or is it at the discretion of share-holders? Can we expect full transparency in this too, including subscribers numbers, operating costs and basically the "CA"? Isn't the original Social contract a bit subject to Shareholders discretion?
* What's the point in being a non profit organization if you represent (grossly) a third of the capital?
* If the game expansions and content took so long taking into account there were a handful of full time developers, how can we expect a community/GPL driven project improve this? Are OpenOffice, Mozilla-Firefox, Apache, the Linux kernel significative when you consider the amount of years these projects span?.


I don't know which solution is best or not. There will be bad things and bad things, and everybody is supporting his side.

[keithlan]

More questions:

[...]

Very valid questions about support and language. I just think they're not raised on the right forum.

There is probably no answer to these on the project's forum for the time being. But raising them there will trigger an answer, and then we will be able to go beyond educated guesses (if you don't get any, then your point will be made).

[kaetemi]

Also the website to this project isn't up half the time that's problem number 4 and again its only been a couple of weeks.

It's just getting a lot of hits. How many hits/second can you handle?

As a member of the ryzom community I can safely say that if there is a non profit project to be run I dont want this guy and his fanbase to be in control of it thanks...

As a member of the ryzom community I can safely say that you are insulting people, which is kind of against the code of conduct...

[totnkopf]

As a member of the ryzom community I can safely say that you are insulting people, which is kind of against the code of conduct...

its not an insult at all... its an opinion.
The two are very different.