(sorry about the length .. it's actually an interesting discussion that brings out many thoughts I've been having)
vguerin wrote:You're opinion is self serving (truly yours to state) and contrary to what is going on IG and your trying to represent your opinion with some odd attempts to make new facts.
As stated in too many threads to link... OP wars are not typically won by the best tactics (unless close already), but by numbers. This minority is also the majority ? This minority playing the game within all game parameters is beating the majority back with numbers ? Au contraire, the majority playing the OP war part of the game are slightly ahead currently and nothing more.
Nice try on word-twisting, though the logical progression is flawed. Just because a large number of players fight in outpost battles, doesn't mean all of them like how the situation is progressing. Even granting that the Karavan guilds are more organized and disciplined in outpost battles, that doesn't mean the majority think the situation is the correct and ideal situation. Many people, Karavan and Kami alike, feel compelled to go to the battles, whether they even enjoy them or not or whether they would rather do something else. "You want cats? Go to the battle." "We support you and help you train and gain levels and knowledge of the game. You support us and fight at outpost battles." Etc.
It has been stated many times that the outposts as a whole are severely broken. So far, only a minority disagree with that view. When you have the two extremes, almost-guaranteed victory and almost-guaranteed defeat, with very little middle ground of not actually knowing the outcome already, both sides get bored and lose interest in the game. When there is excitement, anticipation, and surprises, then you have a game (more) people are more willing to play.
As an example, look at the lackluster turnout on the part of the Karavan at the Woodburn Stronghold battle. There wasn't much of a fire and an eagerness with everyone excited to be there to try to gain an upper hand on the enemy faction. Those that assumed "we'll win anyway, so I don't need to attend" will most likely be at the next attack. Those that see that you're only beating a dead horse, playing "clean up", probably won't be at the next attack; they're already getting tired of the outpost battles, and looking for something else before they search for a new game.
vguerin wrote:Many things in Ryzom were intended (though the dynamic part is highlighted less since we dropped the "Saga of" from the game title) to have the flexibility for each server to have their own history to an extent while being nudged the way the Dev's needed it. Their is no war without conflict, this server is being pushed in the direction of the guilds playing it... just as intended.
Yeah. To me, the ideal situation is one where the GMs and Devs act more as guides and QC/balance teams, than having to constantly set up story and events. In the ideal situation, the players create the events, and the player-created events shape the future of the game. Imagine having to run recon missions to scout out the defenses of the enemy outpost to determine the best time to attack. Imagine running a few covert ops before the battle, to knock out some key defensive or surveillance systems. Imagine the -kitin- getting mad from all the drilling above their heads, perhaps because a drill went right through a nest, and launching an organized mission to destroy the outpost, requiring the owner to rebuild if they can't drive them away. The list really is limited only by your imagination.
Unfortunately, Ryzom is nowhere near to being capable of sustaining that kind of environment, even if support for these things I mentioned were added to the game mechanics. Even the attempt to mimic the "factional" conflicts of another wildly popular game, though half-hearted at best, fall flat because of the small playerbase.
vguerin wrote:<Opinion Mode On> The players commonly referred to as the "Karavan" are more dedicated (blanket statement, not intending to offend some I have fought for years now and respect) generally. Most "Karavan" have been in the same guild's more often, have their guild and game names in their sig and believe in similar game ideals. "Karavan" generally have a consensus in their actions and are not, in spite of popular opinion, governed by a few personalities.
The opponents of the "Karavan" like to join the "guild of the month" and are their own worst enemy. Some have been in more guilds than bars. Guilds have dissolved overnight with whispers of drunken rants, shared accounts and/or personality conflicts causing members to choose sides. Rumors of not sharing OP materials, rogue officers making war declarations, fake accounts and spying abound... <Opinion Mode Off>
Nice attempt to dodge flaming
I have little basis to form an opinion about what you said regarding the Karavan. At the same time, I started out being VERY unimpressed with the Kami side, though that opinion is changing as they worry less about outposts and start thinking about the things they have in common. It seems when the source and causes of ego and greed are taken away (along with some instigators), so also goes the ego and greed.
You say the Karavan are more dedicated ... but dedicated to what? To outpost battles, almost certainly. To specific guilds, maybe, maybe not. To Ryzom? I think you would have a fight on your hands with trying to claim that. Though I do admit the lack of new content combined with the consistent defeats of the "end game" content that does exist, many long-time Kami players are giving up. Just like many Karavan players left Cho because of the imbalance there, at least according to the forum. And just the lack of new content alone is driving away players from both sides, many of whom only come back for outpost battles, at least in the past.
vguerin wrote:I wish we could call something in the game a faction war... The majority of players that stuck together through many things are currently holding a better position in the guild OP wars. The minority are those that are not playing the OP game and want things without having to do anything to acquire them. Get in line at the "community" OP's for those freebies "while supplies last"...
Too bad, you almost made it through the post without saying anything really condescending. Though, to hear some of your faction allies tell the story, the Karavan are the minority and are fighting tooth and nail to overcome the Kami aggression
(those poor Silan newbies who don't know any better, though it's funny to see their reactions when they learn the true situation). I still say take away the outpost "rewards" as they exist now, and reintroduce them into the game as rewards for things indivual players must accomplish, rather than sitting in one spot for two hours pushing one of two buttons. That also removes the unbalancing effect.
It is admirable that the Karavan have been able to keep their forces energized and continually present at battles. With the numbers and the odds you guys have, I would have long since been bored with the battles. It's like in games that actually have a victory condition. Once you pass a certain point, it's no more "playing the game" but just "mopping up the pieces". It's not quite that bad here, but close.
And in those same games with the "victory condition", once you see that there is no hope for you to win, how many people honestly play until the bitter end and allow the enemy to wipe you out? How many people, instead, restart the game and try some new tactics? Games like Civ and chess come to mind ... it's easy to see when you have no prayer of a chance of winning, and are just wasting time. Even grand masters know when to resign. Is it not conceivable, even to you, that the Kami are facing such a situation? Yes, some will stick it out and keep trying, but others are tired of the crap and have shifted their attentions elsewhere, where they're not just wasting time.
To further illustrate my point, liken these two situations to outpost battles. If you are attacking, and you see that you can't achieve the necessary threshold, do you keep fighting just to see how well you do, or do you go do something else?
so maybe it doesn't all work as intended...
