DCP

[mithur]

Aye it is overdue! Those people that have played 2 years or more with no skills over 200, are the minority types that can log into the game and stand around for hours admiring how lovely everything looks whilst doing their acting out RP stuff! - Or creating alot of decent scenic movies, which is great, but you guys are a minority! Most people just dont go for that kind of approach to a game imo! *How ever much we support the game , I think it's important we keep pressure on the developers!

I think that PowerLevelers are a minority, too. Most people level their first 250 more or less quickly (Well, I haven't any 250 and I'm here 9 months... and I never RP), and while they do, and when they archieve that 250 (In combat, ele, heal...) they are playing the game (This is, boss huntings, expeditions, treks, OP Battles, Guild task, fame, enciclopedia, etc...).

There are a lot of things in the game that you can do without being grinding all the time. And, Most players I know, take one or two masters in a year, because they aren't in a hurry for that.

I mean, there are little RP'ers, but there are little level burners too. Hey! You can see the sample in this forums... there are more or less the same level burners than RPers. The most people are in a middle of that.

[final60]

I think that PowerLevelers are a minority, too. Most people level their first 250 more or less quickly (Well, I haven't any 250 and I'm here 9 months... and I never RP), and while they do, and when they archieve that 250 (In combat, ele, heal...) they are playing the game (This is, boss huntings, expeditions, treks, OP Battles, Guild task, fame, enciclopedia, etc...).

There are a lot of things in the game that you can do without being grinding all the time. And, Most players I know, take one or two masters in a year, because they aren't in a hurry for that.

I mean, there are little RP'ers, but there are little level burners too. Hey! You can see the sample in this forums... there are more or less the same level burners than RPers. The most people are in a middle of that.

Aye power levelers are a minority! You may find a handful of RP'rs ingame if your lucky, what you see on the roleplay forums, doesn't corrolate to what happens ingame imo!

Your right the average player wants to do everything, boss hunts , leveling, the encyclopedia, fame, player run events, all these things the average player can get through in months, then they become repetitive. Outposts are mostly uneven, Kami perhaps winning 20% of the time since they were first introduced! My point is for the average mmo player Ryzom doesn't have that "just abit more" , thing about it, the thing that makes it addictive!

To touch on outposts again! I think it was a mistake to make Ryzom so player governed. It goes for different aspects of the game! But if you put to much power into the players hands, they will mess things up. Because inequality is in human nature. If Nev had forced a strict balance mechanism from the start between factions and other things ingame, we would have had more equality and both factions would have had the sense of achievement which inturn would perhaps have lead to more players now!

I'll put it to the developers that Karavan aligned players have been playing a different type of Ryzom for a long time! Losing for such a long time and so consistantly has a demoralising effect on players. When a person plays a game of course they don't like losing, so they will hate losing consistantly. It's not about not having access to OP Produce, it's just about coming home from a crap day at work, and having to face a 5th OP loss of the month. With Outposts as our only end game content, for the average casual Kami aligned player there is no end game content worth playing!

** A perfect example of the good balancing the developers had used was in episode 2: the sanctuarys. The players were lead to believe they were to fight over the Materials needed to create their Sanctuarys, alot of PvP and alot of digging later! At the end of the Episode 2 Both factions and all races had the same amount of santuarys. No amount of digging from one faction would have stopped the fact that all races were going to have their own sanctuary, The illusion was there, but mechanically the devs had control over the construction bars the whole time, and it ensured everyone was happy in the end!

[mrshad]

** A perfect example of the good balancing the developers had used was in episode 2: the sanctuarys. The players were lead to believe they were to fight over the Materials needed to create their Sanctuarys, alot of PvP and alot of digging later! At the end of the Episode 2 Both factions and all races had the same amount of santuarys. No amount of digging from one faction would have stopped the fact that all races were going to have their own sanctuary, The illusion was there, but mechanically the devs had control over the construction bars the whole time, and it ensured everyone was happy in the end!

Yeah...it is a perfect example of how to make player contributions meaningless. EP2 was a complete failure. It was the beginning of the end for Neveracts, implementing poorly thought out PvP content for actual plot advancement and compelling content.

We were told our efforts actually mattered, but when the structures were completed 80% by the GMs, the illusion was destroyed, and we knew the story would progress the way the GMs wanted it to, with no regard at all to the effort the players put into it. After that, I just stopped going to the old lands. What was the point? Many, many others just cancelled, figuring if that was the best Neveracts could come up with after months of hype and promises, the game wasn't going anywhere.

[calel]

As someone who has most likely a completely different way of playing the game as Final I still understand his points. If you're not interested in RP, creativity or even PvP, there's not much left to you in the game but the community once you reach a few Mastery levels. It's not as much a matter of burning out, but the lack of usefullness of most skills to affect the gameworld on one end and on the other hand the constant drive to get better in your skills so you can be supportive on the FvF/PvP/OP warfare level nowadays.

With various crafts and ecosystems mastered I can count the times my skills felt usefull to the gameworld over the course of 2+ years on one hand; the few Encyclopedia Rites and the Temple Building of Episode 2. With all the available Rites done and Episode 2 long gone there's no 'real reason' anymore for my skills other than inter-player relations and thus indirectly helping others to level/grind more or partake in PvP. I thoroughly enjoyed the skills, I still do, but differently. The recipes I have come up with or the know-how on gathering excellent and supreme materials aren't necessarily bound to levels; they're just extras you learn over the course of your stay here. But they don't aid me in affecting the gameworld.

It's a lot worse when you aren't inclined to pick up Forage and/or Craft and go full-out on Fight or Magic. Once you reach mastery you're bassicaly useless or supportive to other players at best. It doesn't surprise me in the least those players are among the first to go 'bored'. The only times they have some use is during invasions, events, treks, bosshunting and PvP. So what do you do in between those if RP and creativity don't interest you?

I'm in no means saying Ryzom needs quests or another attempt at the fabled 'endgame'. But it has the potential to be a dynamic gameworld that constantly evolves, ever bringing new challenges where lower level players can have as much use and fun as advanced level players and where master level players feel reaching those last levels now pays off. So far almost nothing of that promise has come true; the civilisations and religions feel dead, recovering our past's heritage and rebuilding is non-existant, the suppossed constant kitin and marauder threat are pathetic at best and the story progresses at a snail's pace.

Ryzom is by no means the only game that suffers from this feeling of static, emptyness and unfullfillment, there's an over-saturated market of those out there. The difference is that Ryzom was develloped with evolution, purpose and dynamics in mind, something I hope GF will try to capitalize if they're smart. Because if anything, it is that which can set Ryzom appart.

But untill then nothing will change the current trend.
Ding 250! What now?

[final60]

Mrshad:
Not at all! As long as you enjoyed being part of the event! You were still contributing to your own status on the Rankings! You were puting in the effort for those rankings! Then when the episode ended We got new content with all the lore to read and the new items to purchase, so the Devs controlled the overall outcome, which ensured equal enjoyment and carried the story along, but they didnt control the individual rankings for those who wanted the competing element..!

[blaah]

At the end of the Episode 2 Both factions and all races had the same amount of santuarys. No amount of digging from one faction would have stopped the fact that all races were going to have their own sanctuary,

for those who wasnt there or dont remember anymore, it was very possible to stop other faction from building sanctuary. and it was very close that tryker would of had kami sanctuary too.

ohh and all being happy, hehe, not even close. atys lost good homins because of that "happy" event.

[ajsuk]

Yeah...it is a perfect example of how to make player contributions meaningless. EP2 was a complete failure. It was the beginning of the end for Neveracts, implementing poorly thought out PvP content for actual plot advancement and compelling content.

QFE

I loved EP2 until the point everything was magicly finished off for us and our efforts were suddenly meaningless.

Outposts with a "strict balance mechanism" would equal just the same thing, alot of effort going nowhere, not achieving anything.
As Shads said, we were told our participation mattered and would have real effect on the game, that is/would-be a great feature in a game.

[scarazi]

QFE

I loved EP2 until the point everything was magicly finished off for us and our efforts were suddenly meaningless.

Outposts with a "strict balance mechanism" would equal just the same thing, alot of effort going nowhere, not achieving anything.
As Shads said, we were told our participation mattered and would have real effect on the game, that is/would-be a great feature in a game.

Jayce, not to turn this into an OP thread, but op`s and Ep2 cannot be comparable, you talk about effort, there is no less or more effort on either side, winners or losers of an OP fight, a balancing mechanism, would just mean tha the current "winners" have to work harder should they own -lets say for example- 70% of the OP`s

EP2 was no about effort, doesnt take a superhomin to stand at the crafter mission giver waiting for mats to be deployed to get faction points (regardless of level). Didnt take any effort to dig ql 50 mats and get the same points as digging centre of map ql 250 mats. Just bad design, no risk effect has ever been introduced to Ryzom.

But its wrong to say that a balancing system linked to OP`s means no effort for the underdogs.

sorry if any typos new keyboard

[katriell]

Mrshad:
Not at all! As long as you enjoyed being part of the event! You were still contributing to your own status on the Rankings! You were puting in the effort for those rankings! Then when the episode ended We got new content with all the lore to read and the new items to purchase, so the Devs controlled the overall outcome, which ensured everyone was hapy, but didnt control the individual rankings..!

yo dawgz im teh 1337 on th server!!1!

[xfluffee]

QFE

I loved EP2 until the point everything was magicly finished off for us and our efforts were suddenly meaningless.

Outposts with a "strict balance mechanism" would equal just the same thing, alot of effort going nowhere, not achieving anything.
As Shads said, we were told our participation mattered and would have real effect on the game, that is/would-be a great feature in a game.

The game doesn't have the player population to allow a greater open-ended player-driven game. And even if it did, the GMs and Devs would still guide it in the direction they want it to do. It's like being a DM/GM in a table-top RPG: you know how you want the story to go to create the most fun for your players. CRPGs are an attempt to extend that table-top RPG experience onto the computer. Go play some games like that with a few friends, to understand what kind of game Ryzom is trying to be like.

As others posted, it sounds like player efforts -did- matter. You and Shad have already gone public with your opinion that there should be no balance, and if you can get the upper hand, the game mechanics should allow you to keep it forever. Thats good and fine and all, since you are of course entitled to your opinions and wishes, but thats "fun" only for a very small number of people. Even a large number of those on the "winning" side get bored of constant victories. Most of the other people who post do want some sort of balance between the opposing forces, to keep the excitement kindled. You should accept their opinions as well, and realize they are the majority. Not you.

Most people here do seem to understand that Ryzom isn't a game that you start, improve yourself and your friends/teammates, "win", and then move on. Games do exist with those kinds of goals in mind, for people who want that kind of thing, and even some MMOs are like that. Ryzom isn't one of them.