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[flat75]

[The following post is ironic, do not take seriously]

Not long ago I met someone in the GoC, who told me he was "dragged" there by friends to hunt. And jokingly he told me that it is my fault.
At that moment, an enlightenment struck me. I was wrong all the time. When lots of players demanding lots of changes regading the game, all disagreeing with each other, it's not the product that's need change. It's the people.
It's the solution for all our current and future problems.
When every player wants the same thing, values the same thing, enjoys the same things, woes of disagreement disappear, demanding voices fade off.

It's not the product that needs change to accomodate various tastes. People has to be changed to value and enjoy the product as it is. We are not just a users of this product, but we are a community too. Unlike word users for example we can affect each other. We can end all the cacophony once and for all, transforming the entire community to a multi-bodied single-minded being.

Let's call it the ... hm... berg.
The Berg Collective. Let's assimilate weaker-willed players, if needed by force.
If we really act together, all resistance is futile. Their individual tastes will be merged with the collective, making us, and them richer.

How can it be archived? Not easily... I do not really have exact solutions, but I can offer a few advice:

If you are Good:
- Organize hunting parties with destination other then the void.
- Ask unknown diggers to be their bodyguards.
- Never participate a hunt killing plants.
- Bring empty packers to frequented digging locations. Hand them out to the needy. (also good money sink)


If you are Evil:
(please don't follow these advices, most of these activities can or will result a complaint filed against you for harassment)
- Ridicule voidians at every opportunity.
- Drag aggro over them while they are killing plants.
- Harass players digging in GoC safe locations. Tell them to go dig elsewhere.
- If you see someone hunting plants, do damage to the plant exceeding half of its hp. They won't receive xp, give up, and move to somewhere more interesting location.


If you are Ugly:
Condolences, I have no specific advide for you. Welcome to the collective. We like you the way you are.


RESISTANCE IS FUTILE!

[jared96]

RealMen(tm) run to nearest homin when they have aggro, press their "/r Sorry, didnt see you" macro and keep going.

Unless of course you have {afk} up in whch case, they just keep going and leave ya dead bod to rot.

[jared96]

"equivalent" means about the same accesibility, danger, and yield. I am quite convineced that the reason lots of people lvl in void is the lack of equivalent opportunies elsewhere.

Depends on the level. For the 240-250 run Plods (Void) and Shallah (Scorched Corridor) are the only opportunity for a team of any size. Jugs can be done but last time I did that it was about 1350xp in team of 2. Kinch and even jabs work but that best with peep healing outta team.

It would be koinda nice if their wasn't a straight "run" of mobs all in one spot. PLants-Yetin-Zerx-Jabs-Kinch-Plods all in one spot so it has becoem the defacto spot to grind thru the 200s. The run from 150-200 or so is most often done I think in Falmin Forest.

But from a perspective of a neutral player with kami tp's, it seems logical that I would use Fyros and Zorai lands to level as I have more TP's oin those lands. The fact that kara tp'd players also are attracted to the Void indicaye sthat there's some convenience there also. Then again, I have oft hunted cuttlers and jugs in matis with kara tp'd friends. can't say I have doen anything otehr than boss hunting in Tryker tho.

>They have the right to detract from thier own experience. Especially so If they tried the other way (alone) first and failed.<

I don't recall anyone suggesting otherwise.

You just dais what I said several time before: personal challenge is easy to archive.

That's not what I said. I said I don't want the game made easy and convenient so one can dig w/o being hassled by mobs or get from point a to point b w/o effort. I want consistent challenege not just wake up one morning decide I want a special challenge and then to have to go looking forward. I want the challenge every day with every action.

I said "prime root would be filled with explorers, diggers and hunters" you replied PR if full of diggers. Then you stated expressly that people don't go there explore or hunt.

There is no reason to explore something twice. BTDT falls into play. PR is a place to get "hard to get" stuff. If it was easy to explore and travel in, things would not be hard to get. I have yet to be in PR and not be carrying on a conversation with someone. Of course the thing about PR is knowing when to go. No sense going after the nodes have been emptied. If you know when they pop, a closely guarded secret buy many, there's no sense spending time standin around doing nothing.

There's also the community. If I am about to go looking for Sup Irin Oil, first thing I do is ask the regular PR diggers if they nabbed it all already. If I get a "yeah I got it yesterday", I don't go.

It's also not a place where one gets mats for grinding craft. That tactic maost use is to "dig and drop" until their PR dig reaches their craft level. Then once you recah 250, what's theeason to go there. The reason there is not a lot of diggers in PR is hat there are not a lot of players in game. Of those that are, few are grinding PR dig. Once you are finished, there's simply no reason to go there unless say your (or a guildies) armor died and you need to make a new one.

To refer to your example: if the shortest route to your office is always crowded, you may want to try to find an alternate route. A slightly longer, hopefully not so crowded, to avoid traffic jams. That's the reason. If you realize that the shortest alternate route is 3 times longer than the original, making you even more late from office, you won't be too happy.

Well you didn't bring your version of the analogy to the point which it mirrors your request. Ryzom is exactly as the analogy given. You have a choice of three routes (3 fibers)....some are short trips, some are long, soem have traffic. Take your pick; Ryzom gives you that choice. What it doesn't give you is a directive from the governor to the DOT saying that three different routes from your hosue to your work must be constructed and they all must be of equal length and identical traffic capacity.

So .. are you saying it shouldn't be issue for anyone else either? Let me assure you, I know a few people who care about what armor they wear. I even had to craft from fine mat to archive a color.

No I didn't say that at all. To my mind, I think it's "unwise" to sacrifice armor protection to "look pretty". I don't have a problem with anyone making that choice....they are the ones who have to work off the DP. What I am saying, is that your asking the community to support your requests and this item is certainly not going to be on my top ten list.....nor on my bottom 10.

>As a DBA I can tell you NO database exists which has entries in it's manual stating: "please do not use our product to store too much data, it may be corrupted" I can tell you even open-source databases (like postgres or mysql) scale pretty well. You know there is a whole industry behind it, working of technologies which result realiable scalable database management.<


As a DBA you should be aware that:
-the bigger the DB, the more HD capacity needed to store it.
-the bigger the BD, the more computing HP needed to sort it.
-both of the above cost money.

The engine used by Ryzom is Nevrax's own, there is no "industry" behind it. During the beta stage we experienced many DB problems and in fact I had the luck to trip over one of the causes . Stuff would just disappear from inventory and then magically reappear sometimes. I noticed that when my inventory slots exceeded 128, stuff started disappearing this problem would surface and when I dropepd below that number it would stop. I received a thank you note fron nevrax indicating that the info was instrumental in solving that problem.

I assure you all mats in all guilds GH on all servers is less data than a large youtube videoclip. And youtube is free, whereas this game is not.

You tube was just purchased for 1.65 billion. This game is bought at a court ordred bankruptcy sale.

You, a master HA crafter can't see the difference. Oookay, I explain.

I'll ignore the inherent bias from comparing HQ MA and MQL jools...er why not both same Q so we talkin apples and apples ? But explain the part about how this is different:

a) An HA crafter crafts a bag full of vests, hikes over to hawker and hits the "Sell all the crap I just crafted" button.....poof all 40 vests disappear.
b) A Jool crafter crafts a bag of earings, hikes over to hawker and hits the "Sell all the crap I just crafted" button.....poof all 120 earings disappear.

So ... making someone able to correct his mistakes is .. handholding.

Giving someone the opportunity to correct his maistake once is given when you hit what is essentially the "are yu sure" button....remember it does require multiple clicks to sell something. The undo gives you yet another chance to correct your mistake. So, yes adding extra layers of programming to track what you did over the last 2,3,4 hours, days, weeks is too much handholding.

Now can I have my style too?

Your asking for community support for 19 items which the community has overwhelmingly said it's not high on their lists. No, you are not getting my support for this because it means to accomodate your 19, other items which are on a majority of the player's top 19 lists would have to be ignored. GF has limited resources. Any time spent on your 19 items is time not spent on other things the rest of the community want. Given the choice between your zoom and those other things, I gotta go woith the other.

You need more zoom why....because when sitting on your flag and casting with Range = 10, you can't find something ? The game already provides an option, try range = 20. Again, I am not saying it wouldn't be nice. I am saying it rates a 1 on a scale of 1-10 and there's too many items with 8 and above ratings.

No, I say again, I think the original proposion was to ADD 10 static actions. So if you do not use those actions, nothing has changed for you

What I read said that of the two rows of 10, one would remain static. If I have 20 rows of 10 now and 1 row is static, that means 19 rows of 10 are scrolling.

[gillest]

One of the idea (increasing the interest of the zones) is actually good, just the statement is not: nobody goes there..

It is true now but not for the majority of the players: your opinon may be falsed by the fact that you are somehow new and that you did as well follow the path you reproach other to take.

As I said in earlier post, I did get 250 in Grove (first 250 melee of Ari) but before going there, we fully explore the full of the forest area: treaks to trykers, full exploration of the HH area (wasn't a bolobi boss at the time, was a kincher), full xp evening party in bog going throught the maze fully south of bog..

Then we started going in the 200+, fully explored the whole of GoC in guild (havent been there for ages, wonders if the kipesta nest/pack is still there)..
At this time, the majority of zorai players were tping to grove to lvl: first AoD probably were made in GOC as well as first CG's...

Now, after some restrictive patch, grove became accessible to factionned but harder to neutrals and the place switched, became Void.

As you said as well, blame the players and blame the guilds: the players want their 250 now and in maximum one month nowadays... blame nevrax for cats too, they somehow increased the problem.

Guilds are guilty as well (blame nevrax as well) as now they all need maxi of 250 to support OP battle and all this crap...
So they just help new players to pwerlvl as fast as possible.

On the other hand, your arguments can not really find a lot of echo on this boards as the majority of the players have (as keiko said it): been there, done that...

I am rdy to bet that over 80% of the ppl that answered on this thread have actually been to every single area of the game: may just be to make sure that they did not miss one mob of a certain lvl to look for specific mats for recipes or another reason..
And they did survive easily so making it easier is indeed a mistake..
making those area more equal in term of player repartition would indeed be good but I hope yu are very patient for this request to be implemented

*shows Wylan the queue*

[flat75]

Quote:
You just dais what I said several time before: personal challenge is easy to archive.

That's not what I said. I said I don't want the game made easy and convenient so one can dig w/o being hassled by mobs or get from point a to point b w/o effort. I want consistent challenege not just wake up one morning decide I want a special challenge and then to have to go looking forward. I want the challenge every day with every action.
>> Okay, you want consistent challenge. I'm sure it can be done. Now, please elabore how can you create consistent challenge from 100 players, all different skill levels within the same game.
My observation about player behavior seems to indicate most players want lower challenge level than currently in game, and they most use those areas, where challenge level is below average, therefore making these areas crowded.
So far most of the replies were about "stop dumping down the game, we need more challenge". Obviously they don't.



Quote:
I said "prime root would be filled with explorers, diggers and hunters" you replied PR if full of diggers. Then you stated expressly that people don't go there explore or hunt.

There is no reason to explore something twice. BTDT falls into play. PR is a place to get "hard to get" stuff. If it was easy to explore and travel in, things would not be hard to get. I have yet to be in PR and not be carrying on a conversation with someone. Of course the thing about PR is knowing when to go. No sense going after the nodes have been emptied. If you know when they pop, a closely guarded secret buy many, there's no sense spending time standin around doing nothing.

There's also the community. If I am about to go looking for Sup Irin Oil, first thing I do is ask the regular PR diggers if they nabbed it all already. If I get a "yeah I got it yesterday", I don't go.

It's also not a place where one gets mats for grinding craft. That tactic maost use is to "dig and drop" until their PR dig reaches their craft level. Then once you recah 250, what's theeason to go there. The reason there is not a lot of diggers in PR is hat there are not a lot of players in game. Of those that are, few are grinding PR dig. Once you are finished, there's simply no reason to go there unless say your (or a guildies) armor died and you need to make a new one.
>> So all the challenge-seeking people do not favor digging grindmats in prime root, because it's ... too challenging? Wait, what?
I, for one, do dig grindmats in PR in order to lvl PR forage.
Your entire agrument is quite derailed if you bring in PR too. I intentionally didn't mention PR in the first place, as I think there must be a place, where it's always dangerous to go, no matter how high level you are.
Now you argue against making Q250 regions easier, meanwhile admitting PR is so hostile, that people go there only for the mats. I .. am confused. Really.


Quote:
To refer to your example: if the shortest route to your office is always crowded, you may want to try to find an alternate route. A slightly longer, hopefully not so crowded, to avoid traffic jams. That's the reason. If you realize that the shortest alternate route is 3 times longer than the original, making you even more late from office, you won't be too happy.

Well you didn't bring your version of the analogy to the point which it mirrors your request. Ryzom is exactly as the analogy given. You have a choice of three routes (3 fibers)....some are short trips, some are long, soem have traffic. Take your pick; Ryzom gives you that choice. What it doesn't give you is a directive from the governor to the DOT saying that three different routes from your hosue to your work must be constructed and they all must be of equal length and identical traffic capacity.
>>No, one route are short, the next one is at least 3 times longer. At least. At which point it is not alternative at all. That's why noone uses it.
I did not requested equal routes. Only different routes which are real alternatives of each other.


>As a DBA I can tell you NO database exists which has entries in it's manual stating: "please do not use our product to store too much data, it may be corrupted" I can tell you even open-source databases (like postgres or mysql) scale pretty well. You know there is a whole industry behind it, working of technologies which result realiable scalable database management.<

As a DBA you should be aware that:
-the bigger the DB, the more HD capacity needed to store it.
-the bigger the BD, the more computing HP needed to sort it.
-both of the above cost money.

The engine used by Ryzom is Nevrax's own, there is no "industry" behind it. During the beta stage we experienced many DB problems and in fact I had the luck to trip over one of the causes . Stuff would just disappear from inventory and then magically reappear sometimes. I noticed that when my inventory slots exceeded 128, stuff started disappearing this problem would surface and when I dropepd below that number it would stop. I received a thank you note fron nevrax indicating that the info was instrumental in solving that problem.
>> Sounds like the program was not ready to handle high nomber of items. It has nothing to do wit database, or database corruption at all.

Quote:
I assure you all mats in all guilds GH on all servers is less data than a large youtube videoclip. And youtube is free, whereas this game is not.

You tube was just purchased for 1.65 billion. This game is bought at a court ordred bankruptcy sale.
>> And youtube offers it's services for free, while gameforge does not.
We have long past the world where amount of user generated data is an issue. Welcome to the user-generated multimedia age.


Quote:
You, a master HA crafter can't see the difference. Oookay, I explain.

I'll ignore the inherent bias from comparing HQ MA and MQL jools...er why not both same Q so we talkin apples and apples ? But explain the part about how this is different:
>> Okay, I admit I just dont know how much mats HQ jewels cost. By the way, if you have archived 50 lvls since your skill is branched, you can grind HQ with armor, but only MQ in jewel. You are free to ignore simple examples you don't want to understand.

a) An HA crafter crafts a bag full of vests, hikes over to hawker and hits the "Sell all the crap I just crafted" button.....poof all 40 vests disappear.
b) A Jool crafter crafts a bag of earings, hikes over to hawker and hits the "Sell all the crap I just crafted" button.....poof all 120 earings disappear.
>> Is there a sell all crap I just crafted button in the game?

Quote:
Now can I have my style too?

Your asking for community support for 19 items which the community has overwhelmingly said it's not high on their lists. No, you are not getting my support for this because it means to accomodate your 19, other items which are on a majority of the player's top 19 lists would have to be ignored. GF has limited resources. Any time spent on your 19 items is time not spent on other things the rest of the community want. Given the choice between your zoom and those other things, I gotta go woith the other.
You need more zoom why....because when sitting on your flag and casting with Range = 10, you can't find something ? The game already provides an option, try range = 20. Again, I am not saying it wouldn't be nice. I am saying it rates a 1 on a scale of 1-10 and there's too many items with 8 and above ratings.
>>No, you completely misunderstood it. I don't expect these modifications to be done for the reasons I have already mentioned in the thread.
This question was about: can I defince for myself what do I expect from this game, and how can I get most fun from it?

Most of the posters in this thread are exclusionist: they suggest: have it our way or the high way.
I am inclusionist: I think ryzom should be modified to be usable for more people for more than one style in more than one way.
Without having to jump loops if you want to get something done. With providing enough challenge for broad spectrum of players.
Because inherently Ryzom has several core values distinguishing it from other games.

[gillest]

This question was about: can I defince for myself what do I expect from this game, and how can I get most fun from it?

*Pulling the devil*
No you did not..
Yes you started the thread explaining what you would like

with some idea how to address the issues I feel bad about

but then:

What should be done

Very different from: What I would like to see the dev do ...
-----------------------------------------------------------
Ok I stop drinking and go back get more DP

[vguerin]

*Pulling the devil*

Ok I stop drinking and go back get more DP

Never stop drinking, and you are right... this is the only current poster I know that trolls his own threads.

[flat75]

*Pulling the devil*
No you did not..
Yes you started the thread explaining what you would like


but then:



Very different from: What I would like to see the dev do ...
-----------------------------------------------------------
Ok I stop drinking and go back get more DP

>> I really hope you have read this too:

"Besides, as I mentioned in my original post (red dots or not red dots) these are the changes that WILL NOT be made in the near future. Most of them are convenience features. All those in software industry know, that usually these features are the last to be done. First bug fixing, then required features, then optimizing most used features, then convenience features.
As GF seems to be seriously understaffed, I doubt Ryzom will reach that state in the future when all bugs are fixes, and all whining has been finished.
"

[flat75]

One of the idea (increasing the interest of the zones) is actually good, just the statement is not: nobody goes there..

>> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I never said that. Can you quote please?

It is true now but not for the majority of the players: your opinon may be falsed by the fact that you are somehow new and that you did as well follow the path you reproach other to take.

As I said in earlier post, I did get 250 in Grove (first 250 melee of Ari) but before going there, we fully explore the full of the forest area: treaks to trykers, full exploration of the HH area (wasn't a bolobi boss at the time, was a kincher), full xp evening party in bog going throught the maze fully south of bog..

Then we started going in the 200+, fully explored the whole of GoC in guild (havent been there for ages, wonders if the kipesta nest/pack is still there)..
At this time, the majority of zorai players were tping to grove to lvl: first AoD probably were made in GOC as well as first CG's...

Now, after some restrictive patch, grove became accessible to factionned but harder to neutrals and the place switched, became Void.

As you said as well, blame the players and blame the guilds: the players want their 250 now and in maximum one month nowadays... blame nevrax for cats too, they somehow increased the problem.

Guilds are guilty as well (blame nevrax as well) as now they all need maxi of 250 to support OP battle and all this crap...
So they just help new players to pwerlvl as fast as possible.
>> Most of what you mentioned is about past. Let it rest, and concentrate on the present.

On the other hand, your arguments can not really find a lot of echo on this boards as the majority of the players have (as keiko said it): been there, done that...
>> I believe you. However being there, and going back there for weeks after weeks are two different things.

I am rdy to bet that over 80% of the ppl that answered on this thread have actually been to every single area of the game: may just be to make sure that they did not miss one mob of a certain lvl to look for specific mats for recipes or another reason..
And they did survive easily so making it easier is indeed a mistake..
making those area more equal in term of player repartition would indeed be good but I hope yu are very patient for this request to be implemented
>>So just because an area was once visited by someone, who probably never went back there makes that area equally used and useful as the area where at least 5 players always can be found. I fail to see the truth of your words.

[jared96]

2nd try at this....1st one went poof.

Okay, you want consistent challenge. I'm sure it can be done. Now, please elabore how can you create consistent challenge from 100 players, all different skill levels within the same game.

Consistent challenge is:

Level 0-50 players working a blue zone; Level 50-100 players working a yellow zone and so on.....mixed team work it out. XP given is based upon the challenge faced. You wnat XP, you will find a challenge.

My observation about player behavior seems to indicate most players want lower challenge level than currently in game, and they most use those areas, where challenge level is below average, therefore making these areas crowded.

If you replace the word "challenging" with "convenient", I'd agree. But to an extent, a small extent, yes it's only human nature to pick the "shortest" or "easiest" route to a goal. When I am mountain biking and the trail forks giving two paths, one means I have to jump a log, the other goes around, I opt for the jump. OTOH, if one a steep grinding climb and the other a not so steep one, I'll often opt for the less "tiresome" one.

Heck I can't do plants for any length of time, I'll hang for a few just for the comraderie but w/o risk of getting deaded, I tend to get bored very quick.

So all the challenge-seeking people do not favor digging grindmats in prime root, because it's ... too challenging? Wait, what?

What's so hard to understand ? Goal is to get crafting up. Crafting is not exciting, it's not challaneging, it's simply a grind. With the slow pace it has, no one wants to waste time. Here's my chocies:

a) Work 250 spot above ground. Can trek packers there and leave in relatively safe spot close to where you are digging. TP's reasonably close by. Can make it thru aggro untouched in excess of 90% of the time if paying attention and not rushing. Once at spot, can dig for reasonable length of time with only occassional interuption. Mat quality suitable for grinding. Hawkers readily available.
b) Work 250 spot in PR. Packer trek will take hours. Few safe spots to leave packers that are clsoe to safe zones. After TP'ing in, still usually a nice trek to spot ya wanna dig. Can make it thru aggro untouched maybe 30% of the time. Once at spot can dig for maybe 5-6 minutes (often less) before getting chased off. Mat quality above what needed for grinding so additional risk not warranted. Hawkers few and far between.

I, for one, do dig grindmats in PR in order to lvl PR forage.

I think the "for one" is kinda outta place. I am pretty darn sure that is the ONLY way to level PR forage and that is the way "every"one does it.

Now you argue against making Q250 regions easier, meanwhile admitting PR is so hostile, that people go there only for the mats. I .. am confused. Really.

Don't understand the confusion. What has PR's difficulty got to do with the other regions. If we give PR a 9 on a scale of one to 10 and the 250 regions a 4.....what's PR's 9 got to do with lowering the 250 regions from 4 to 2 ? If you want it to be easy, why not just use one of the power leveling services ? They will have you at 250 in everything in no time.

No, one route are short, the next one is at least 3 times longer. At least. At which point it is not alternative at all. That's why noone uses it.
I did not requested equal routes. Only different routes which are real alternatives of each other.

That's a pretty good contradiction. You're not asking for "equal" routes" but you don't want routes that are "3 times as long". So I can only assume that there is some number between 1.0 and 3.0 that you find "appropriate". If I may ask, that is that number ? 2.0 times as long ? 1.5 times as long ?

I still don't understand the premise. When one sells his grind crafts to the npc is he saying "Gee I sure wish you made this with annette fiber instead of Dzao" ? We have three alternatives .... Dzao, Annette and Buo to grind away on LA..... each peep can pick which one is easiest for him / her....the npc doesn't care. Now if one wants annette for his / her own armor cause it has better stats, then the risk / reward equation comes in. If I wanted it for no discernable reason whatsoever, then peeps be saying something akin to my "weapon didn't have a point on it".

Okay, I admit I just dont know how much mats HQ jewels cost.

Go here:

http://ryzom.raum.com/?t=itemdb&s=clist&menu=0

By the way, if you have archived 50 lvls since your skill is branched, you can grind HQ with armor, but only MQ in jewel. You are free to ignore simple examples you don't want to understand.

HQ patterns become available at level 150 across the board. Note also that jewel mats are always found together and only two different mats are required. WIth HA it's four mats and at best, no more than 2 of the 4 can be found near one another. It also takes 216 mats to make a full set of HA versus 100 for jools. It's an extra bunch of levels for the jooler but, most importantly, they are low levels and easily accomplished by standing at the raw mat dealer, even doing no math (equal amounts of two mats) and can be knocked off rather easily. When I came back from an extended vacation from game, and our guild had a new HO requirement that all officers be able to craft every item (one race) to level 100, I knocked off bringing all crafts up to 100 in a weekend just standing at the mat dealer and buying npc mats.....no bigga deal really. But you a free to ignore simple and easy solutions if you want to.