Xavier's still at it :)

[tryzovia]

You still think their is a Saga in Saga of ryzom, oups sorry, Ryzom ?

Grimjim, for the csrs I know, you wan't to know why they left?
They left because they were unable to do something to help roleplay on atys.

Figure out that their is a lot of things our chars should know that is classified as spoil? we had wait more than a year to know how the Fyros empire is made (to have a "constitution", to have weddings). when you want to do some event, and then you have to wait months to have an aswer, no most of the time, you can be dissapointed.

that's why they are former csr : jolt csr-ing does not work as good as you think.

And beleve me or not, I care only for Ryzom. And if you feel that i have been arogant i'm sorry but i do not think i did. Finaly some people had say much false things about this project and some of the community of ryzom.org, for exemple one said that Xavier took the role of DCC before he was fired. I can find lots of others affirmations that are false. Just because they don't go to the information.

Luinil

[iphdrunk]

More questions:

* Will english be the default language for events and support?

* Since one of the goals is to mantain current service operation, how will conflicting aspects such as OP ownership be managed?.

* Can a single shard host 3 communities knowing that it was stated that Cho was open mainly for scalability issues?

* Will there be full time 24h/7 support?, including events adapted to North American timezones?

* Will the money of subscriptions invested fully in full time developers, servers and hosting, billing outsourcing and similar costs, or is it at the discretion of share-holders? Can we expect full transparency in this too, including subscribers numbers, operating costs and basically the "CA"? Isn't the original Social contract a bit subject to Shareholders discretion, if one reads the "statuts" of the "Societé Act. Simpl." as per http://www.ryzom.org/static/statuts_sas.html ? Any comments on the "President" and "Directeur General" roles as elected based on share holder weight and may have a salary proportional to the "profit"? [1]

* What's the point in being a non profit organization if you represent (grossly) a third of the capital?

* If the game expansions and content took so long taking into account there were a handful of full time developers, how can we expect a community/GPL driven project improve this? Are OpenOffice, Mozilla-Firefox, Apache, the Linux kernel significative when you consider the amount of years these projects span?

* Other than cumulated debts, what in Nevrax cost model and service operation can be improved and how?

just to name a few...

Don't get me wrong. It's not the procedure. It's the way it is/was presented and the ideals. The fact that it turned into a for-profit organization with the "promise" on community based development; indeed, with a major strenght of having a GPL code. But we have no guarantees of most of the things that are given "for granted".


[1] "Le président, personne physique, ou le représentant de la personne morale président, peut être également lié à la société par un contrat de travail à condition que ce contrat corresponde à un emploi effectif (...) Le président peut recevoir une rémunération dont les modalités sont fixées par la décision de nomination. Elle peut être fixe ou proportionnelle ou à la fois fixe et proportionnelle au bénéfice ou au chiffre d'affaires.En outre, le président est remboursé de ses frais de représentation et de déplacement sur justificatifs. (...) Le président dirige la société et la représente à l'égard des tiers (...) Le droit de vote attaché aux actions est proportionnel à la quotité de capital qu'elles représentent

[keithlan]

Xavier trying to run the forums was an absolute joke. Not a clue in the slightest.

On this one, I cannot comment. Xavier, at least on the french-speaking part, was not our main contact point or forum moderator. I mainly know him from the Ring alpha tests, which he led at the beginning, and it was a good experience. I cannot say the same after his departure.

If these people are ex CSRs, I'm thinking, perhaps, there might be a reason.

Yes there is one, challenge that reason.

This thing is a last ditch solution, not a good solution in any way, shape or form, it's a slapdash, cobbled together duct-tape and rubber-bands idea that has about as much chance of working as a wet fart has of putting out an oil well fire.

It's probably a last chance solution, I would agree with that. I said in another thread I would prefer ryzom to be bought by a known and solid company. But between nothing and ryzom.org, I prefer the second.

Comments form involved people here and on Ryzom.org have been arrogant and clueless, they show little to no concern for the community - which kept the bloody game going all by themselves for at least 12 months, and no understanding that the existing community and the excellent support - Jolt - are the main selling points that Ryzom has.

I don't know if you refer here to the comments I made concerning the project. I speak here as a player, a convinced one maybe, and I bloody paid the last 12 months to support a game where nothing new happened as well. I am conscious you are happy with Jolt, but you have to consider that is is not the case for the community as a whole. On the Aniro shard, Jolt investment was poor at best. Maybe you consider Aniro is not part of the community.

Lose those, you've lost everything that remains.

From my point of view, I can only disagree. Your opinion against mine, who wins ?

The original vision for the game was compromised in a lunge for a quick buck and by the time things were coming around to exploring that innovation again a different and destructive game mode was established, like a virus. Now Ryzom doesn't have a clear vision at all and if you make it a community project it's going to get torn in a hundred directions at once.

It's a risk, I'm not one to deny it. But I am not a specialist in divination arts either, and this might also happen with any buyer.

None of this is good. Either you really need to step back from what seems like some sort of personal problems with how things are and reassess, or you need to start being honest with us, and yourselves.

I am perfectly honest with myself, thanks. I am not here to sell a product, I'm just giving my opinion as a player and perhaps trying to put things back in perspective because I think things get a little bit biased here. I have no personal problems, but thanks for caring.

Underhanded e-mailing, playing the publicity game and slagging off the main two appeals of the game don't convince anyone of the project's honesty or worthiness.

For the e-mail, I agree with you. It has probably not been the best way to handle things. Xavier recognized it on the project's forum (I cannot find the message right now).
I don't see where the project slags off the "main two appeals of the game", but I don't think I can convince you otherwise anyway.

[iphdrunk]

You still think their is a Saga in Saga of ryzom, oups sorry, Ryzom ?They left because they were unable to do something to help roleplay on atys.
(...)spoil?

that's why they are former csr : jolt csr-ing does not work as good as you think.

Luinil

What makes you think Jolt knows all the details and is free to act regarding live events and RP? How do you know Events approval were not solely at the discretion of Ravna / Nevrax? What makes you think the delays and no-answers were Jolt's fault? Do you think Jolt can act without Nevrax approval? aren't you, with all due respect, mixing things a bit?

I see your points, though. Some are valid. But we have concerns, like the questions I asked. Will those former-CSRs assume 24h/7 days including North American timezones? sure, as a community based project, there will be NA players that will CSR too. But it's good to ask these things too.

And yes.... I read a lot, including mondes-persistants....

[praha]

It's Nevrax that was responsible for the rolepaly elements of the game not Jolt. Jolt was just given the script and the puppets to play out the scenes. Every event Nevrax has put on has been cryptic to all involved. You think the CSR's knew what was going on with Slaughter week? No one did except Nevrax. How long it would last(it did last longer than a week), how the event was to be carried out, etc. Should I even DARE to mention how poorly Nevrax explained the physics behind the Episode II temple event? Get you facts straight bud.

As for Linux virus', if Linux comprised of 87+% of the PC market, most virsuses would be for Linux. The Virus maker makes the virus to do the most damage. Linux, Mac OS, and Windows are all just as buggy and just as easy to hack. All are just as likely to get hijacked via keyloggers, phishing software, etc. Some Os's just have more documentation out there on how to do it. Each OS has it's own strengths and weaknesses and should be used accordingly.

[tryzovia]

Yes Nevrax is responsible for the Saga, and Jolt for the animation.
I do not charge jolt for that, I was explaining why those csr leave their post.

adding to desdi post : We may do what is promised by Nevrax: players would have an influence on the saga (not discusted now, so do not tell it has ryzom.org words). I think we will go in this direction. As far I know there is no real differencies between our 3 servers storry today...

Luinil

[desdi]

Well I think the debate on the lore/saga is a bit naive because the idea of a saga progressing gradually was great but the speed not enough: most deductions/secrets have already been guessed...
At least for those with a little scifi culture.
It self-evident that kami and kara are both "evil" for the homins and Elias an opportunist but we still play factions or neutral right? Because we are not our characters!

But behond this the whole concept of spoil kinda... spoiled the richness of the actual lore.
Not being able, till late, to know what we are supposed to eat or what is the structure of the governments was a joke!
A joke built on the false-good-idea named the "encyclopedia".
Progress have been made though with the chronicles but still, this isn't exactly well structured for a player wanting to know more of the world where he is living in!!

And that's clearly a thing the opening of the lore would help.

Now what might it spoiled ? The Scenario of the Saga not even more in the logo?
Well strange but I though that it was the player who where supposed to direct this scenario.
That means that they are multiple ways and that suspence is still there because it depends on our actions!

And with an open lore we can make rich new side stories with pnjs without taking the risk of defacing the main story. Life is not build mostly on major event but on the accumulation of minor one. Major event are just the background.
Let's imagine you play an RPG where the action take during the 2nd war, we all know who wins in the end but not our characters the interesting part is the way we play with them in this context and of course the side story that take place during our RP campaign. Here the main story ( the war ) is exactly that: a background!

We could also add 'missing' content too, knowing the whole thing and making it coherent.

And with the lore we would only know tendencies, not the end as it is of course not writen ( or at least 3 ends are possible ).

In the end I'll also add that nobody would be forced to look at the lore itself. Self constraint is after all the best way to pleasure. If you don't wanna be spoiled on a movie you don't look at trailer or critics either...

[totnkopf]

75k euro donated so far, until i see i breakdown of where that dapper will be spent i wont support or donate. I think most of know a little about Xavier, know that he was sacked, know that he stole email addresses from Nevrax, know that his business model was wrote on a whim and has had to be rewritten. What i`ve seen so far isnt at all impressive, but wish them luck if thier bid suceeds, they will need it.

yep... as I said to Praha, the only organization they have is in their URL...

[praha]

Jolt's hosting (minus the ocassional yubo in the router hiccup that still persists 2 yrs later) has been almost spotless. I just think the dot org guys are going to run into a lot of issues if they think a DIY job is gonna have Ryzom running as cheap and as efficient as it is now.

[totnkopf]

As think we have all the experince needed.
We have former and actuals crs, who know the system. We also have Xavier, who is former community liaison. I do not see why ryzom.org would less efficient than jolt in managing a community?

you're making an assumption here that they would be willing to part with Jolt and simply go work for this new company that is essentially 'stealing them away'....

And I think as a part of the ryzom.org community cames from the free software world, they know a bit on how to appel volunteers . Why shoud ryzom.org be less atractive than jolt?

lets see... one of the heads was fired from Ryzoms staff, stole emails, lacks organization in his business plan, etc... Thats not much of a showing to appeal to people to go work for them...

I think a hierarchy wouldn't be long to create. Between the time we will know if we won or not the project and the time we will run it, there will be all the time neded.

if their organization is anything as stellar as the stuff I've seen on the .org project so far, the CSR will be worse than most games.
"Are you a CSR?"
"I dunno... am I?... I guess I might be. Have you tried relogging?"