PvP, the devil: or (to P or not to P?)

[keoni]

Most of these points have already been raised by others, so I'll be relatively brief.

I am fine with the fact that there are limited PvP zones in Ryzom. Although I'm not a PR digger, I do travel in those zones and I recognize that I am subject to attack by other players when I do, with or without reason. Yet that does not mean that I will hold that player blameless. If I am attacked, or one of my guildmates/friends/allies are attacked, then I will do my best to make sure that their actions have consequences--either to that player personally, or to their guild if they condone it.

As for those who publically identify griefers and gankers, as far as I'm concerned they are doing a service to the community. Preferably with a screenshot to put things in context, especially if there is any follow-up trash talk. That way, people will be able to make informed decisions about how they deal with that guild or individual. I understand that a lot of people will see those sort of reports and either not care, or think it's fine. But no matter what your opinion on PvP, I don't see why some seem to have a problem with this sort of reporting. If you let the facts speak for themselves, that's not whining. People should have to live with the reputation that comes with their actions - if you can't do the time, don't do the crime.

I am not anti-PvP. I am looking forward to outposts, and whatever other well-defined and meaningful opportunities they might come up with for PvP-with-purpose. But I also think that the game should allow those who don't like PvP at all to continue to do their thing in peace. If the game ever became 100% PvP, everywhere all the time, I am firmly convinced it would quickly TTS. I hope that day never comes.

[vinnyq]

what does TTS stands for?

[keoni]

what does TTS stands for?

Er... well, to paraphrase a bit - "turn to shiznit"

[vinnyq]

Er... well, to paraphrase a bit - "turn to shiznit"

lol. oh.

thanks. I learned something new today. Yes, I agree, it will defn T to very very much S.

[kashius]

Hello all.

Some of you may have read my posts in the last little PvP discussion/Debate. I am of the group of people that like PvP and think it helps games in a fun sense and in terms of RP.

Open PvP as stated previously would/could work if a couple elements currently missing existed.

- Faction meaning something in terms of PvP. If open PvP were to exist, faction (Kami/Karavan/Other) would need to mean something. If I'm Karavan and kill a Kami supporter, doesn't mean anything. If I kill Karavan...still doesn't mean anything. Fame/Honor/Reputation for defending your factions beliefs and territory would make it so that PvP had a purpose. Gaining territory for your faction earns you rewards of course. Who knows...get enough people ticked off at you (PKing people at random regardless of faction); and you could be hated by both sides. Making you have to go through some trial/quest series/gauntlet to bring yourself back to neutral.

- Influence over areas. Kami heavy areas are controlled by the Kami supporters. Guilds/Individual players etc...have free reign in those areas to go anywhere, do anything. Karavan may enter at their own risk. They cannot attack first and if their reputation (by killing too many Kami folk) is very bad, they risk attack at the hands of the guards when nearing towns under opposing influence. This would open the gateway for embassadors in the event of Kitin attack. A not so despidsed Karavan could approach a Kami controlled area, not get whomped on and ask for assisstance against a common enemy. Whereas if Joe-I kill Kami supporters for kicks-schmoe thinks he can stroll into Zora at will, he will be met with formidable opposition. Make the town guards earn their wages in other ways than zapping Suckling Yubos with Mega Destroy Rank 5. Neutral players/guilds could roam freely, but on the same token would not be able to initiate a conflict outside of PR. People who die in areas not in their areas influence will have to respawn at small (I mean small like 2 dudes and a teleporter) outposts controlled by their faction in a surrounding area.

Going along with that if players don't take the initiative to seek outpost control, NPC factions would be able to take them, spreading their influence over the area. Making Homins want to seek to control the lands in which they farm for mats, level and do whatever else.

I believe these things would help in allowing open PvP to work in this game and allow those who do not wish to be part of it to have a limited role. The people who are PvP nuts can be as active as they want, taking control of areas for the honor of their faction and slaying those who try to oppose (most likely other PvP heads). Those who PK for the hell of it will be able to, but not without consequence. Diplomatic embassadors would emerge, warlords can rise in fame/power and outright criminals would be treated as such.

-Kash-

[trenker]

I think any system with character levels in, will cause ganking and player misery. There will always be a gross imbalance and that will be exploited by gankers and griefers alike.

To make a PvP therefore there should be an absence of levels or the ability to all max out fairly quickly. Take Guild Wars for example, you can get to the max level 20 quickly, thereafter the PvP is 'even'; voila, no ganking problem.

Any other game that allows a huge number of levels (250 say) and allows such open PvP areas that anyone can attack anyone else, has basically created a scenario for many many people to get ganked or griefed and finally annoyed or fed up.

So, as much as I like 'sensible' PvP, I don't see how it's going to work with 200 or so levels dividing the community.

[iwojimmy]

Apparently, fame will be coming into PvP, (which is one reason the devs want to reduce healing efficiency) but if it is just going to be a Kami/Karavan thing then -whats the point ? The Fame which was supposed to be a measure of your standing and recognition with the factions of Atys becomes little more than a FPS frag score.

If they are going to bring fame into PvP, make it affect all your fames. If you defeat an opponent, you should gain fame with all who dislike them, and LOSE fame with ALL who like them.
So you gain some fame with every faction (already known to you) your opponent has red fame levels with, and lose fame with those your opponent has blue fame with.. even if it is your own faction. The opponent was considered a good person and friend by that faction, why should they let you kill them with no consequence ?

Dedicated PvP players will find their fame polarising, ultimately to the point where they cannot enter an opposing races city (if there was any justice).
Diplomats can gain fame with multiple factions to discourage people from attacking them (wont stop the hardcore, of course)
Casual PvPers may have to put some effort into fame management, if their actions are driving them in a direction they dont want to go.

and there is no reward for killing newbies - again, wont stop the griefers, but nothing ever has..

A system, using stuff that is in the game already, that will encourage greater involvement and reward differing play styles.

[calel]

I think you hit the nail head up here; THIS would be something I' d like very, very much to see implemented.
It would make a) Fame more rewarding outside of the Outposts/Rite box and even within it could mean to affect a guild' s fame enormously, especially if Guildleaders, HO' s and Officers are involved;
b) It would give a much needed consequence.

The way I see this dedicated PvPers can still go doing their business but will have to pick targets carefully; actually anyone would.

Silly question: do cityguards attack if you have red fame levels? I suppose they should but I' m left out of the blue here.

[basicart]

Apparently, fame will be coming into PvP, (which is one reason the devs want to reduce healing efficiency) but if it is just going to be a Kami/Karavan thing then -whats the point ? The Fame which was supposed to be a measure of your standing and recognition with the factions of Atys becomes little more than a FPS frag score.

If they are going to bring fame into PvP, make it affect all your fames. If you defeat an opponent, you should gain fame with all who dislike them, and LOSE fame with ALL who like them.
So you gain some fame with every faction (already known to you) your opponent has red fame levels with, and lose fame with those your opponent has blue fame with.. even if it is your own faction. The opponent was considered a good person and friend by that faction, why should they let you kill them with no consequence ?

Dedicated PvP players will find their fame polarising, ultimately to the point where they cannot enter an opposing races city (if there was any justice).
Diplomats can gain fame with multiple factions to discourage people from attacking them (wont stop the hardcore, of course)
Casual PvPers may have to put some effort into fame management, if their actions are driving them in a direction they dont want to go.

and there is no reward for killing newbies - again, wont stop the griefers, but nothing ever has..

A system, using stuff that is in the game already, that will encourage greater involvement and reward differing play styles.

LMAO that would suck so much no one would ever PvP cos almost everyone works on getting all race fames into the blue if not 100 personal. No one would fight for Outposts cos it would nerf all race fame and Outpost would soon be cast into the looks nice but not worth it corner. Outposts / PvP is the big selling point in days to come it they want to atract more people and bring back some they lost.
Fame and PvP dont mix well IMO

[grimjim]

LMAO that would suck so much no one would ever PvP cos almost everyone works on getting all race fames into the blue if not 100 personal. No one would fight for Outposts cos it would nerf all race fame and Outpost would soon be cast into the looks nice but not worth it corner. Outposts / PvP is the big selling point in days to come it they want to atract more people and bring back some they lost.
Fame and PvP dont mix well IMO

I don't think you could be more wrong on that.

This over concentration on PvP seems like a wasteful and potentially deadline sideline for the game and doesn't make sense in the context of the game as played or built up.

Best case scenario there's more to it than it seems and the outposts are enough of a reward by themselves without the dubious 'bonus' of PvP.

Worst case scenario, PvP doesn't attract new players because its not what SoR's rep or appeal is based on and it drives away the current players who fairly resoundingly (as a whole) aren't that keen on free for all griefing.