Ryzom

Hey Pita, I will be your bodyguard for a mil dap a day =)

vinnyq wrote:Hey Pita, I will be your bodyguard for a mil dap a day =)

Ack! THose prices are way too high! 1m a day??? I'm gonna have to buy and resell the entire market to afford that.

FYI, regarding the lazyness of me buying and reselling to other markets. Don't ever for a moment believe it is lazy work. I spend weeks/months constantly browsing vendors and leraning values and what sells. It is an aspect of the game like any other.

I consider it a service and will keep providing it.

For those of you who did buy my jewels in Fryos, ty. Are you not glad that I pulled them from other lands to make them available for you when the need was great?

Yes, my risk is great. When Haddo stays at the same Q and same prices, I can make a good run of it, but when he bumps his Q, I am often left sitting on a stack of yesterday's goods that are very hard to sell, which I then pull and hold for my personal use. Believe me, at the prices Haddo charges, that can be financially crippling when it happens.

Lazy... How hard is it to hit the "dig" button, or the "attack" button, or the "heal" button... bah. You want lazy? I consider any playing any form of computer game to be using that game as a prime example of lazyness. (points finger at self too). But hey, we are here because for whatever reason, we would rather be here than inRL doing hard work, no?

Just to make sure there is no confusion, I am not buying out markets to cornet them, the market died and I happened to have a fair supply I had stored up. I put it where it was most needed. I brought jewels to Fryos when they were gone. When Haddo was gone. Complain all you want about the morality, but I performed a service to those in need. The rich who wanted the best of the best.

The new person has pllenty of low level jewels, armor, amps, etc to choose from in all markets. I don't resell low Q. Only higher Q. The only low Q stuff I sell is what I craft and by the way, I make amps, armor, weapons, jewels and even the highly desireable ranged goods (shakes head wondering why she bothered learning range craft).

fyi... Before I get slammed for marking up mats (never have in my life, though I consider nothing wrong with that if i am moving them to markets in need), You should know that I do use the market to store my mats and put them up at incredibly high prices. Someone bought 3 mats for a total of about 50k form me the other day. That was my personal supply dammit! well, I'll let you have them, but just this once.

Actually, if someone did go and buy up my mats in storage on the market, it would ba a huge pain in the butt for me, cause I need them for my own crafting. Crafting which I do to help make myself less reliant on the whims of the market.

So if you want to really get back at me, buy my ridiculously priced mats and cripple my crafting supply.... (chuckle)

Hmm.. just realized I am an hour late for work. OOPS!

-Pita

As much as I want this thread to die... I'm compelled to respond once again.

I was one of the first responders to the original post. I posted as "Average Joe Consumer" because that was my experience.

I went to Windermeer jewel merchant and noticed that "Player R" was selling full sets of q180 jewelry. I noticed that they were more than I was used to paying and then noticed that the sets were crafted by Haddo. My original response was, "Oh, someone went to Thesos, bought some of Haddo's jewelry and dropped it off here, adding 10-20k per piece for his troubles... how enterprising of him!" I then zoned to Thesos to find what I referred as "Haddo Originals" but when I arrived I found that jewelry crafted by Haddo was being sold by "Player P" for 100k+ than Haddo's original pricing. Word then reached me that Haddo would be out for a week and that if I hadn't gotten his jewelry soon I'd be out of luck until he returned. I believe that is where my emotions ran hot and when I responded to the original post. I know "Player P" and her guild. I didn't contact her or her guild leader mostly because I held them in high regard and that come tomorrow Haddo would be back to replenish the market with reason or in a week or so other crafters I know would be crafting just as high. I was confused as why Keoni was singled out but I guess she brought it on herself. I guess Basic was just being Basic and Tetra... well... you know. DT chimed in with his normal voice of reason tainted with bitters of Matis arrogance (role playing?).

I have no problem with people reselling market-to-market. Add a little something for your trouble and the cost of the tickets. I did have a problem with someone cornering the market for no other reason than greed. As DT said we, the consumers, allowed for this situation. Granted a few players had some information that the player-base didn't have, which in turn caused a market panic and that market panic inspired additional gouging. That additional gouging trickled down to the lower markets as some crafters of lower level jewelry attempted to cash in on the craze. And now the backlash... a market that is overvalued and overstocked. Ahh... Economics 101 !!

Maybe the devs will add restrictions to light armor and jewelry similar to medium and heavy armor. Not sure I'd like that. Either as a crafter or as a fighter. But it almost makes sense. Almost.

Anyway, Haddo will be back. All will be forgotten if not forgiven. The call for more crafters and diggers has been made. I'll see y'all in-game... grind, grind, grind. Maybe we'll have 5 Haddo Jr's running around, each selling their wares at resonable prices... We'll have to watch them though... "Price Fixing??" "For the Love of Jena!"

You misunderstood, these profiteers bought the items and then turned around and IMMEDIATELY resold them to the SAME vendor, in the SAME area.

And yes, in the US we have antitrust laws to prevent Monopolies. The true solution to this is to exclude these people from all groups and any assistance, when you see a "black listed" person, ignore them, no rez ins, no help of ANY kind.

And if you don't want them buying your gear, then yes, advertise in game and out(there is a market forum) that you will make the jewelery for whatever price you wish to set, but due to profiteers, you can't sell it to vendors.

When you are buying everything affordable and jacking up the prices, that isn't being smart, that is being rude and selfish.

borg9 wrote:I have had great pleasure in reading this thread ......

I am from over the pond on a different server to you guys, so hey KOS me if you don't like what I am about to say.

It appears that a player/a number of players have seen that Haddo 'master jeweller' has been selling his wears to a limited market for resonable prices.

These players have found that they can buy these items and resell them in other locations for more dapper.

It also appears that some players see this a wrong.

Facts as I see them:

If someone will buy jewels made by Haddo, sold by someone else for more money than Haddo would charge, then this can be easily sorted by market economy.

1. Haddo raises his prices, to the same if not greater price than the reseller. (Haddo wins on all counts, potential profit earned by resellers is reduced/removed)

2. Haddo floods the market with jewels at the same price that they are currently sold. (Haddo wins, players win, resellers won't buy and resell in a flooded market)

3. If Haddo can't reach the lands where the resell is selling, Haddo needs to get out more. The reseller is doing Haddo a favour, free advertising and he doesn't even have to pay transport costs. A buyer in the other land, who can travel will seek out haddo, not the reseller for their next purchase.

4. Someone else craft jewels, the demand is great and there is a monopoly ... great opportunity for the hard worker.

5. Only buy jewels made by Haddo, sold by Haddo.

I am a crafter so, I expect my stuff to be bought and resold, it doesn't cause me any issues at all. They are infact doing me a favour by speading the word about my crafting skills.

The kill on sight stuff sounds to me like jealousy, either player is annoyed that they can't make the jewels and the money or they wish they had had the idea and feel they have missed out on something.

Haddo - is not lossing anything, infact he is able to sell more stuff faster as a result (he gets what he wanted to charge), but now has more than 128 slots to do it with.

Profiteer - will only make money while the customers still buy the stuff, when they do stop, so will there profit.

Buy the sounds of it more players are getting access to jewels and therefore an imporved gaming experince.

Hope this make sense to you

Haddo Jrs. I like that

Actually, you will notice there are some (not naming them) that have already reached q160. I'll be helping them move products to other markets if they chose not to do so themselves.

I for one will never find myself utterly dependant on some other gamer for my ingame enjoyment. Like I mentioned before, I consider the top jewels too pricey for my own use and constantly buy q100-140 for my own use.

I do have hopes for the betterment of Homins, that all the little Haddos turn into big ones. In merely one week, I have seen about 4 aggressive crafters rise up and narrow the gap between Haddo and the rest of jewelrydom. What could be better than this?

As for Haddo, he is going to either have to hand over his crafting crown soon, or hunker down and get cracking to keep his corner of the high end. To me, this is one of the most exciting parts of the market. I mean, up till now, I have seen Haddo increase from q170 to q190 over the last 2 months. Wanna place bets on how fast he improves now? Heck, I've been watching other jewelrs go from sub 100s to 140, 150 and 160 in 1 week! No that is market competition rising to the challenge

If Keoni, SoulKrusher and I have helped inspire this change, then I certainly don't have regrets.

I imaging there is little left to say in here at this point and my sincere apologies for not having jumped in this post much earlier (especially to you keoni), but was only made aware of it the other day.

As always, I am available in game for your tells. Tell me when you are unhappy with me. I will do what I can to keep the peace. I don't want to hurt anyone, even those that may consider me a target in the future.

If anyone is in need of some special craft that is difficult to track down, let me know and I'll use my resources to help you get it.

See you all soon!
-Pita

lyrah68 wrote:And yes, in the US we have antitrust laws to prevent Monopolies. The true solution to this is to exclude these people from all groups and any assistance, when you see a "black listed" person, ignore them, no rez ins, no help of ANY kind.

And if you don't want them buying you gear, then yes, advertise in game and out(there is a market forum) that you will make the jewelery for whatever price you wish to set, but due to profiteers, you can't sell it to vendors.

While that is a good point lyrah68 and also, while in RL there are anti-trust laws this isn't necessarily true in the GW of SoR. Another thing is other than Haddo, I don't think there is another person able to craft ql 190 jewelry yet .... that I have seen or know about ..., and Vinka makes some good points. I wouldn't consider that a monoply, it is just the fact that there is no competition. It is also a law of supply and demand. The fact that Haddo is absent for a certain amount of time and unable to put new ql 190 jewelry in the market, there is going to be a shortage, thus, the remaining ql 190 jewelry is going to become more valuable do to the demand. It is therefore only logical that the price in theory would generaly go up. I'm just glad the npc vendors aren't programmed to understand the law of supply and demand.

I have been to the other markets and seen what there is to buy or not to buy, and even though I don't agree on the price that Pita marked the jewelry up to in some cases, she spent her own dappers to buy it and then took the risk of reselling it which if it doesn't resell in a certain amount of time....7 days I believe is the time limit......it is taken off the market, said seller actually loosing money. I didn't think the ql 190 selling for those high mark ups was worth it so I went and bought Gecko's(hope I got the dude's name right) ql 140 jewelry in Tryker land. Yes there is a difference of 250hp on ten ql 140 pieces at 70hp bonus per piece versus ten ql 190 pieces at 95hp bonus per piece, but I was satisfied that I had saved money and gotten a good deal. In other words, if you don't agree with the price, wait and be patient or search for an alternative. When push comes to shove, if it was not selling, Pita would have been forced to lower the prices to move the merchandise, but as it was, there were people willing to pay those prices so Pita saw no need to lower them.

None of this is worth KoS or anything like that. If you don't agree with the prices, force the seller to lower their prices by not buying the product, flooding the market with lower cost alternatives, and/or finding a lower cost alternative.

lyrah68 wrote: When you are buying everything affordable and jacking up the prices, that isn't being smart, that is being rude and selfish.

Selfish? Sure, I'll give you that one. But rude? How exactly is it rude? If supplies of something are so low that one person can corner the market, then why shouldn't they? That's part of free markets. If there's low supply and high demand then someone's going to cash in, it's inevitable. If the person reselling is charging too much, then no one has to buy from them. And if the supply is really that low, than this example should spur people to become higher level crafters. It just boils down to this: if someone is selling something for less than the market will bear, for whatever reason, then I wouldn't call it rude to buy everything that person is selling and remarket it closer to actual market value.

rrwfreak wrote:took the risk of reselling it which if it doesn't resell in a certain amount of time....7 days I believe is the time limit......it is taken off the market, said seller actually loosing money.

Step 1: When you sell an item to a merchant for resale, the merchant gives you X dapper.
Step 2: When you look at what the merchant has for sale, he lists your items in yellow. You can then buy your item back for the same dapper he gave you originally.
I think we all know what step three is.

bcharles wrote:...if someone is selling something for less than the market will bear, for whatever reason, then I wouldn't call it rude to buy everything that person is selling and remarket it closer to actual market value.

Couple of points from someone who is not affected by this but has been amused to follow this thread.

This whole thing simply boils down to a single economic term - speculation. There are a few books on the subject for those of us in the investment business...try Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds to scare your pants off if you've ever thought about buying stocks that your shoeshiner recommended.

The issue with of speculation as a proper part of capitalism - not morally, I'm talking pure econ here - has always been if it drives the cost of longer term capital up without subsequent goods and services being added. In non-econ English in this case, what that means is that does it discourage people from making the investment of time and resources to make more jewels and is there a better use of your time than to gain access to dappers to pay the inflated pricing - and are there valid alternatives?

For the first argument, I'd argue that, yes, vastly inflating prices encourages more people to make jewelry. (Duh.) But...given that the supply curve will presumably look more normal once Haddo returns, in effect you're really doing a disservice to those who have chosen to grind jewelry in his absence. Prices will go down once he starts manufacturing again and speculators go out of the market. That's bad econ - a waste of people's goods (mats) and services (time), and why the flag-waving free enterprise argument here doesn't really hold water if you've bothered looking past the first chapter of your Econ textbook.

But for the second argument (alternatives) you know what? There's really nothing else to spend dappers on. So its moot anyway.

Personally, if someone did this to my jewelry back when it was leading edge (been working on other trees) I'd have been really upset. But one part of the solution is I'd also raise prices so that it didn't happen again. And prior to when I got tickets to all four regions I'd have considered working out a value-added distribution deal with someone to make sure it was available everywhere. But I'd also need to be asked.

That said, for a proper free market (as opposed to this, a blind market) to really exist sellers need to have the right to know their buyers. There's no reason why a seller shouldn't be able to ban a buyer or buyers from their items, which is the simple solution to all of this. Much more effective than a 12 page thread or KoS policy. But then again, we've known much about the vendor system needs fixing since it was implemented.

Haddo's BACK!!!