Xavier's still at it :)

[sx4rlet]

You talk about a hierarchy saying what can do and what can't do a csr, a hierachy that choose who can be a GM, Why ryzom.org can't have such hierarchy? It would be a different form of hierarchy yes, but their would be one. Ryzom.org is not anarchy!! as a républic his not Anarchy. You elect you're président (or the equivalent) and it's good, but elect the one who will rule the support hisn't?

Ofcourse ryzom.org can make such a hierarchy. But at the moment they dont have such a hierarchy yet, and the CSR now have. Unless you know what you are doing, and have experience in working with volunteers, you might totally kill the support if you have to start from scratch.

(Volunteers are not like 'normal' employees, you cannot just tell them what to do, the deal you make with them must be very good (=interesting, challenging, responsible...) as they don't get payed for it. Not making a good deal, will only make them go away faster, or not even taking the job.)

[tryzovia]

As think we have all the experince needed.
We have former and actuals crs, who know the system. We also have Xavier, who is former community liaison. I do not see why ryzom.org would less efficient than jolt in managing a community?

And I think as a part of the ryzom.org community cames from the free software world, they know a bit on how to appel volunteers . Why shoud ryzom.org be less atractive than jolt?

I think a hierarchy wouldn't be long to create. Between the time we will know if we won or not the project and the time we will run it, there will be all the time neded.

Finaly I think a transparency wouldn't be a bad thing in the support chain.

Luinil

[schlo01]

I think, but this is my personal opinion, that once we release this, we will be able to build on that. We will be able to create new stories, to finally create the Saga, which is not supposed to be an obscure and secret information, but an evolving story with strong foundations. The story begins with the background, it does not stop with it.

The opening of the lore is one thing that worries me most, it has the power to destroy much of what Ryzom is about.
If everyone knows everything about the background or at least could read it on some website (and I would read it sooner or later, I'm weak I know ), Ryzom would loose much of its "Sense of Wonder".

And yes, too much knowledge could be damaging.
Maybe some of you remember the second matrix movie? Especially the scene with the architect, who explained everything to Neo?
This was the point where "The Matrix" was destroyed for most people, everone had his/her own cool theory on what the matrix was about.
After that scene there was only a not-so-interesting story and to make it worse all about the third movie was revealed.

So just because of this too much knowledge, "The Matrix" went from "really cool" to "waste of time and money" for most fans.

And I am concerned this will happen to Ryzom too.


Carfesch

[keithlan]

(Volunteers are not like 'normal' employees, you cannot just tell them what to do, the deal you make with them must be very good (=interesting, challenging, responsible...) as they don't get payed for it. Not making a good deal, will only make them go away faster, or not even taking the job.)

I am very happy to read that. Most CSRs to whom I spoke (and I know quite a lot of them) just said that they were not treated very well and that it was not always challenging nor interesting. Still, they do it because they like the game, they like the community and they think (hope ?) they can bring their little touch in the big picture.

So although I fully agree with you on the principles, my experience is that it is not exactly the way Jolt handles the CSRs working for them. I cannot prove anything I say, obviously, so it is a touchy subject.

The project might in fact have a bigger pool of CSRs (formers or actual ones) than the one Jolt is managing now.

[grimjim]

Well, let's see...

Xavier trying to run the forums was an absolute joke. Not a clue in the slightest.
If these people are ex CSRs, I'm thinking, perhaps, there might be a reason.

This thing is a last ditch solution, not a good solution in any way, shape or form, it's a slapdash, cobbled together duct-tape and rubber-bands idea that has about as much chance of working as a wet fart has of putting out an oil well fire.

Comments form involved people here and on Ryzom.org have been arrogant and clueless, they show little to no concern for the community - which kept the bloody game going all by themselves for at least 12 months, and no understanding that the existing community and the excellent support - Jolt - are the main selling points that Ryzom has.

Lose those, you've lost everything that remains.

The original vision for the game was compromised in a lunge for a quick buck and by the time things were coming around to exploring that innovation again a different and destructive game mode was established, like a virus. Now Ryzom doesn't have a clear vision at all and if you make it a community project it's going to get torn in a hundred directions at once.

None of this is good. Either you really need to step back from what seems like some sort of personal problems with how things are and reassess, or you need to start being honest with us, and yourselves.

Underhanded e-mailing, playing the publicity game and slagging off the main two appeals of the game don't convince anyone of the project's honesty or worthiness.

[kaetemi]

Xavier trying to run the forums was an absolute joke. Not a clue in the slightest.
If these people are ex CSRs, I'm thinking, perhaps, there might be a reason.

You were once banned from the forums, must've had a reason too.

[cloudy97]

Finaly I think a transparency wouldn't be a bad thing in the support chain.

The people volounteering as CSRs would find themselves in an awkward situation. Being a GM/CM/CSR etc means dealing with occasional annoying people and in some cases even having to silence, kick or ban them. If I was a CSR I wouldn't want such things to reflect upon my main character when I log on as a player. And also vice versa, if I as a player are expected to help my friends when I log on as CSR.

I think most players agree that Jolt is great.

[kaetemi]

I think most players agree that Jolt is great.

No, not really. I still haven't gotten any answers on my last few problems.

[grimjim]

You were once banned from the forums, must've had a reason too.

The two aren't entirely unrelated.

[kiexa]

The opening of the lore is one thing that worries me most, it has the power to destroy much of what Ryzom is about.
If everyone knows everything about the background or at least could read it on some website (and I would read it sooner or later, I'm weak I know ), Ryzom would loose much of its "Sense of Wonder".

And yes, too much knowledge could be damaging.
Maybe some of you remember the second matrix movie? Especially the scene with the architect, who explained everything to Neo?
This was the point where "The Matrix" was destroyed for most people, everone had his/her own cool theory on what the matrix was about.
After that scene there was only a not-so-interesting story and to make it worse all about the third movie was revealed.

So just because of this too much knowledge, "The Matrix" went from "really cool" to "waste of time and money" for most fans.

And I am concerned this will happen to Ryzom too.


Carfesch

thank you, was trying myself to think of an example, the lore is written out in chapters. every assination, major storyline event planned and documented (obviously the story changes slightly depending on the players choices). But the backbone story is there, previously said that there were nine chapters. Its taken over 2 years to get to chapter 3, i dont want it to take 2 more days to get to chapter 9 and the "ending" to be revealed. imagine what would happen if it were that Ma- duk and Jena are the same person, or that both died 1000 years ago, or that atys is inside a laboratory in Utah.

these revelations would kill the game because the game isnt yet evolved to handle those those revelations.

you three arent convincing anyone, this is not the best for ryzom, it is a last resort, stop trying to persuade people its something diferent than that.