A vision of Cho (Golden age)

[grimjim]

So anyone who doesn't agree with your ideas isn't listening/reading properly now? ooooh, I get it...

Apparently not, based on some of the objections. Not anyone though, some seem to actually disagree with the points made and then, through discussion, you make some sort of progress towards a common ground.

Unless someone thinks they're funny and is trying to score points that is.

[raven41]

The opportunity is there to make Cho a much more pleasant and even more community spirited environment than Arispotle is. The worry is, given some of the attitudes and apparent reasoning of some 'migrating' there that such an opportunity will be lost, within about three weeks if Neun's bet is correct .

How about a new veiw point for ya... If they(as in all the "bad people") Goto Cho won't that make Ari a better place?

Pontless argument guys... None of us can tell the future we don't know what will happen on cho (or on Ari in the coming months really)... But I sure as hell hope it don't turn out like these forums.

P.S. Jy you might want to refrain from saying "anyone who doesn't agree with your ideas isn't listening/reading properly now" or even hint opon that... As it makes you sound like an elitist.... Jerk ... You usually make some valid points , But if you let this "anyone who doesn't agree with your ideas isn't listening/reading properly" It will seriusly invalidate your post/view point.

So I suggest not agreeing with it in any way shape or form.

[grimjim]

Ok, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here and assume that you actually read all my posts explaining why I think these GvG ideas are a terrible idea and then went and conveniently forgot them in the time it took us to get to this post? I'd like to think that I made my points as clearly as possible, and I don't remember you replying with anything that addressed my points that I couldn't immediately say was just as bad. I'll have a polite, reasoned discussion with you about GvG any day you like, provided you actually address my concerns instead of saying something that amounts to "omg have some consideration for other people!"

I did but they've been obfuscated by other posts since. Would you be kind enough to restate your objections? IIRC people did reply to some of your concerns with other possibilities.

'OMG have some consideration for other people' is a valid point though, about the whole game.

I sincerely hope you're not deluded enough to think that Cho will become some RP, friendly, grief-free paradise... I predict that at some point in the future the people who went to Cho looking for the "greener grass" will realise they didn't have it all that badly on Aris in the first place. Sad but true.

No, but it'd be nice and I applaud Spoloh's attempts to try and induce some of that sort of thinking there. Unfortunately I think that's been scuppered already unless something miraculous happens. Even then I wasn't envisioning a return to launch-version Ryzom, but what we have here with just a bit more politeness and concern and a bit less selfishness from some quarters, which would be great. Like you I don't think Cho is going to end up much different, but I have to applaud/support the attempt.

It'd be wonderful if we got the numbers for seperate thematic servers, but barring a miracle I don't see that happening either and that would still depend on people to maintain that community since I don't see Nevrax having the time or manpower to create seperate mechanical rules sets for different servers.

My personal ideal would be a PvE RP server without PvP apart from arenas and duels concentrated on the vision and core values of the game at launch. I know it isn't going to happen so all I argue for now is some kind of equality between playstyles. I don't see why that's so objectionable to you.

[grimjim]

How about a new veiw point for ya... If they(as in all the "bad people") Goto Cho won't that make Ari a better place?

I don't know.

Some of it seems to be returning acheiver/competetive players who left before and want a fresh start without playing catch-up. Some of it seems to be similar types and more moderate types from the 'Kami' side migrating there through frustration.

Both make me worry about the future of both servers, even though there's also idealists moving across. I'm worried it'll just be a slower repeat performance of what's happened here.

As you say, we can't tell, but its interesting to speculate and possibly forewarn.

Oh, and I wasn't saying ANYONE who disagrees with me doesn't get it, but it DOES seem like a lot of the time people are actually arguing against a strawman and not what I actually said/proposed.

[sprite]

I did but they've been obfuscated by other posts since. Would you be kind enough to restate your objections? IIRC people did reply to some of your concerns with other possibilities.

My point was basically made in the first of my posts in this thread... namely[size=-2]As far as I can see, a dynamic GvG OP system basically requires there to be no alliances whatsoever.

Why would you attack someone who helps you out?
Why would you trade crystals with someone who might attack you?
What happens when every guild has one OP? (You didn't mention it, but I often see GvG coupled with "1OP per guild")

The only way I can see this happening is if "everyone" is allied with everyone else, and only use OPs for some "PvP fun". I really doubt that's going to happen.[/size]Your point about trading up was then countered with[size=-2]For "trading up", why would you give your OP to someone who has a lower q than you do? If your answer is "Because you get another, higher, one; what happens when someone gets to the top of the ladder? Besides which, if there was no "one OP per guild" ideal, why would you give an OP to someone who may well start gunning for your higher OP pretty soon anyway?
As for newer guilds, as soon as they attack someone, they lose a potential ally (tho I can't see how alliances would work at all in this theoretical situation) and make an "enemy". Assuming they fail their attack, they stay without crystals - likely enough there's no reason for anyone else to give them crystals to lvl up with (they might come after you next) and the people they attacked sure wouldn't give them any crystals.

As soon as someone starts giving crystals to you, its kind of expected that you won't attack them. This is where alliances come in, and once you have alliances, you lose a dynamic GvG OP system.[/size]And I think that clarifies my initial point a bit as well. After that there was [size=-2]Spoloh:
The alliances will still be possible however. The only thing that needs to be set in stone is the rules of attack (involving allies appearing to come attack/defend)

Me:
That's not really GvG then is it? It's more like alliance vs alliance, and the "most logical" routes for alliances to form is along faction boundaries, which then gets back to FvF.[/size]And in there somewhere was the old "limit the number of combatants" idea which has been done to death.. I really hope you don't expect me to make those points again? Following that was some "positive feedback" stuff which I didn't get into because I thought Sehr and riv were doing quite a good enough job of proving you wrong.

Then we had the beginning of the old [size=-2]Jayce : any reasonable person will tell you it isn't posible to keep everyone happy.
You : Sure it is.
Me : No its not, because as we can clearly see, lots and lots of people think your ideas suck.
You : That's not true.
Me, Jayce, possibly Raynes & Riveit : Yes it is.[/size]I think that about covers it. Anywhere you'd like to continue from?

'OMG have some consideration for other people' is a valid point though, about the whole game.

Sadly you odn't seem to abide by it yourself when telling us that things must change and couldn't possible stay the same. Its a 2-way thing so have some consideration, man

PS. I'm pretty sure this post stretches the forum CoC by rehashing (ie copy/pasting) what I've already said, but you did ask

[grimjim]

I'll start a new thread for it Sprite.

[sprite]

I'll start a new thread for it Sprite.

I look forward to it. That post rehashing all my stuff was literally *on* the character limit.

[vguerin]

If I wanted only what I _personally_ wanted, sure. But I don't, I want something for everyone. I think its a shame the original vision of Ryzom has been lost through various problems but I'll make that compromise so long as it remains the best option on the market, which it currently does. You have been here a long time, you've also been away.

It'd be lovely to have a third server going back to the original vision of Ryzom too, but I doubt that'll happen. So some of us are forced to compromise and move on, but it'd be nice to see some movement from the other side.

The original version of Ryzom is closer to where we are now than what you want it to be Jim. Cho is closer than Aristople and minus the change in vision is spot on current development plans minus the history.

What you really want is the Ryzom they released (too early) without many of the game mechanics implemented WITH all the things envisioned that don't create faction division. That is nowhere near the game envisioned by DCC years before they had enough game to give us to test and previewed on many sites. I too wish we had NeWT, intelligent plants, aging, Kamibast, careers etc etc... but without the factions (even in the current dumbed down version) conflict this would not be the game originally planned.

The game they released created a PvE environment without a reason for division, this is what you cling to, but it is not what SoR intended to be and we cannot roll back the hands of time man. Even when there was less to being a faction (pre-EP2), I know on Windemeer we played like it was when we could and the changes didn't effect everyone the same. Some guilds came out of EP2 broken because they didn't plan to play SoR as envisioned and hoped the day would never come when the storyline began. They can rewrite the lore to suit the game as they now have/want it... they cannot go back and rewrite what DDC said in multiple interviews about his great vision for SoR...

[riveit]

No, its not an accurate interpretation. ... I don't know where you get the rest of this stuff.

I got it from reading most of your 2160 posts. Perhaps that average of your arguments wasn't fair though. People's opinions do change.

Sorry if I was snide. Don't you see that many people see your own posts as snide, as OOC propagandizing, and as very aggressive?

Personally, I don't see much hope for Cho being 'better' than Arispotle. So long as many people have major toons playing on both servers, they will be inextricably linked. The separate servers very much need separate forums so that they can grow apart.

[drcole22]

ho hum. starting to remember why i left in the first place.