ATS Patch: Outposts & Fame System

[marct]

Neutrals will have very few tps available to them that either side does not. They have none in PR (except Nexus), none in zones of 200+, and only a very few in lands below 200. So no I dont think you are correct in saying any area that is Kami held neutrals will be able to get to when you cannot. In addition the distances that neutrals will have to travel will be higher. Non-neutrals will at least have easy access to higher levels, perhaps not the one they would ideally prefer, but access never the less. Within Liberty Lake the only working tp for neutrals is Fairhaven. Not even Dew Drops, which can hardly be described as high level, is available.

So here is the breakdown.

36 regions in the Game
7 PR regions (Neutrals denied)
4 Regions that are over lvl 200 (Neutrals denied)

That would tell me, that there are 11 regions that Neutrals cannot TP to.

If I figure the other side of this, If I am Kami or Karavan, I can expect on average to be unable to access 1/3 to 1/2 of these regions If I am on the leading Faction. This would mean I do not have access to a TP in 13 to 18 regions. This is actually more regions than a neutral is losing.

Sure the PR thing can be seen as a mjor loss, but so can it that I cannot get to Void, or most likely any of Zorai or Fyros via TP. The long walk really doesn't do it for me. I see a lot of people that walk all the way from HoP Kami out to Paramount Stock. Is that worse than it will be in the future for a neutral? Is any of the other walks going to be further than that for a Neutral, besides the PR walk?

You can say it will be a long walk for neutrals, but I think it might just end up being a longer walk for any faction aligned most of the time.

You say the spires will not help you well in any region that the Karavan are not in control they will actually hurt me.

Neutrals that do PvP should be able to do things against both sides. As things stand if I do anything it either has no impact, or aids one side or the other. I want to be able to rid Atys of both the Karavan and the Kami. I would like to be able to destroy their tps. I want to be able to act as a freedom fighter for Homins not a punchbag.

The problem with making neutrals playable is exactly what you said. You want to play against both sides, some other neutral wants to be against neither, some want to be peace makers, some want to be hermits, and some what something else. It is impossible for Nevrax or any other game company to accomadate all people to the highest degree.

I don't believe the game play is exactly as any pro Kami or pro Karavan player would like, but they do not seem to have as much problem playing the role that is storied for them.


I think I rambled a bit hope this makes sense, just trying to rationalize, not bash. You have good points, I just htink the whole story has not been clearly told by Nevrax. Hope it helps.


Noin. (The homonym fool!)

[thlau]

4 Regions that are over lvl 200 (Neutrals denied)

That would tell me, that there are 11 regions that Neutrals cannot TP to.

That is definetly not correct. If I may quoute Marjos posting in the thread:

Faction neutral homins will have access to some TPs from the zones below 200, regardless which faction owns them; but not all of them.
They won't have access to the 200 and 250 regions TPs.

So this ends in 10 regions more, that neutrals will be access denied to.
And this adds to 21 regions that a Neutral can not tp to, which is considerable more than 12-18 regions that a factioned player can't tp to.

[blaah]

Within Liberty Lake the only working tp for neutrals is Fairhaven. Not even Dew Drops, which can hardly be described as high level, is available.

news from front... Resting Waters Kami TP is working for neutrals

So here is the breakdown.
36 regions in the Game
7 PR regions (Neutrals denied)
4 Regions that are over lvl 200 (Neutrals denied)

with new fame, currently not working tp's go live, so we get:
2 200 regions in tryker
3 200 regions in matis
3 200 regions in fyros
2 200 regions in zorai

Since (as mentioned above) being neutral doesn't restrict you from having -100 Karavan or Kami fame (you can still do Kami missions and lose Karavan fame although your Kami fame is at cap and won't rise higher and vice versa) everyone will have the same difficulties in raising the fame with an "enemy" faction.

atm in ATS, doing kara/kami missions, does not lower other. i really hope it's intended for neutrals.
my char has -1 kami and +18 kara fame

[lathan]

Also it's not the number of places neutrals can't tp to it's the choice. Every single place there's a point in me being, I can't tp to. Unless I want to work on my ranged. Which I don't. If I want to hunt, for the lowest thing I'm working on atm, I need at least a lvl 200 area. If I want to dig, I need a lvl 250 area. If I want to get mats to make decent stuff with, I need a lvl 250 pr area.

So you could almost say that for me, being neutral would make tp tickets solely something to get me out of an area where I've been doing something and back to town. I really don't think you can compare that to, for example, not being able to get to one or even half the non-pr lvl 250 zones, when you can find everything there somewhere else anyway.

As for trekking up from the HoP kami, yes, I've done that run on more occasions than I (or, for that matter, what used to be Atys Dragoons) would care to remember. But who knows if I'll be able to get HoP tp, or if it will be one of the others that are not available to me.

P.S. I can see being neutral being ok for very low level people, who might not want to go to pr yet and who aren't high enough to need lvl 200+ areas. Beyond that, I can't see any advantages.

[blaah]

P.S. I can see being neutral being ok for very low level people, who might not want to go to pr yet and who aren't high enough to need lvl 200+ areas. Beyond that, I can't see any advantages.

you right, neutrals will be caped to 200 (or is it 150, damn i'm confused now) with current tp access.

completely different:
did few more kami missions, got my kami fame to +0. can enter kami temple in zorai and take tp to Almati Woods. same with Kara, can tp there from FH temple.

BUT, neutrals will be probably get nuked while loading or just after that IN kami/kara camp by bored PvP ppl just because they can attack you. (you red, you dead).
PvP flag does not help you in event (and some other) PvP/FvF area.

[gwythion]

So here is the breakdown.

36 regions in the Game
7 PR regions (Neutrals denied)
4 Regions that are over lvl 200 (Neutrals denied)

That would tell me, that there are 11 regions that Neutrals cannot TP to.

If I figure the other side of this, If I am Kami or Karavan, I can expect on average to be unable to access 1/3 to 1/2 of these regions If I am on the leading Faction. This would mean I do not have access to a TP in 13 to 18 regions. This is actually more regions than a neutral is losing.

It would be interesting to compare what we think of as a region. I make it 9 PR regions (Wastelands has 3 regions) + Nexus, Tryker and Zyros with 8 each, Matis with 7, and Zorai with 6. Each race has 2 200 and 1 250 region. So I count it as a total of 39 regions. Of which neutrals will have access to a tp in a maximum of 18 regions, but even there it will not be all the tps but only some of them. By my count as Karavan you will start off with access to 27 tps out of the 39. You would need to lose all of PR to get to the maximum that neutrals will have.

Sure the PR thing can be seen as a mjor loss, but so can it that I cannot get to Void, or most likely any of Zorai or Fyros via TP. The long walk really doesn't do it for me. I see a lot of people that walk all the way from HoP Kami out to Paramount Stock. Is that worse than it will be in the future for a neutral? Is any of the other walks going to be further than that for a Neutral, besides the PR walk?

You can say it will be a long walk for neutrals, but I think it might just end up being a longer walk for any faction aligned most of the time.

I think you are missing the point. Anytime you want to level a higher lvl skill you will have access to a tp in an appropriate lvl of region. You will still have access to the capitals of the other races, and can use them as a jumping off point.

You say the spires will not help you well in any region that the Karavan are not in control they will actually hurt me.

Well as the pro PvP's say to those not happy about non-consentual PvP you dont have to go there . But more seriously I would take a mix of advantages and disadvantages over nothing anytime. It is more interesting from both a roleplaying and a game mechanic point of view. You have the opportunity to make bigger gains from the advantages and to minimise the impact of the disadvantages.

The problem with making neutrals playable is exactly what you said. You want to play against both sides, some other neutral wants to be against neither, some want to be peace makers, some want to be hermits, and some what something else. It is impossible for Nevrax or any other game company to accomadate all people to the highest degree.

I agree. I have said before that I wish the Nevrax had never said that neutrals would be a playable faction. The game was not designed with that in mind and is not structured to support it. The "neutral" faction concept covers a very large camp with many differences of view.

I don't believe the game play is exactly as any pro Kami or pro Karavan player would like, but they do not seem to have as much problem playing the role that is storied for them.

I am sure that is true too. Though by the nature of things if role and background are important to you and you are happy to pick a side then it would seem unlikely that role would be an issue. You may find it hard to believe but I think that the game has potential. I just wish that either the Karavan or the Kami were more attractive to follow. I don't mean from the get reward point of view more the roleplay and background point of view. That neutrals were signposted as just as starting point for players until they aligned to one side or the other. It is rather ironic that I would have less problem if I played the game as a "war game" not really worying about the background or nature of the sides, rather than as a "role playing game" where these things are important.

I think I rambled a bit hope this makes sense, just trying to rationalize, not bash. You have good points, I just htink the whole story has not been clearly told by Nevrax. Hope it helps.

Noin. (The homonym fool!)

It makes sense, I don't agree with everything but it makes sense. I think that my fear is that it is not just that the story has not been told by Nevrax, but that it has not been fully thought out. That they have made honest statements about ideas that they have not the capacity to introduce in the near future.

[tridman]

news from front... Resting Waters Kami TP is working for neutrals

Just curious: Did the not working teleports offer you tickets and then told you that you are not allowed do by them via sys info, or didn't they offer you tickets at all?

Im asking because yvrelle posted the following on ATS-board a few days ago:

The tps are not all updated as yet so is a work in progress. Even with a prohibited tp the ticket will still show in the trade window, but a message pops in sys info if you are not allowed to buy it. If a tp has no ticket, it is awaiting its update.

So maybe some of the porters that seem to be not working for neutrals are just not updated yet.

atm in ATS, doing kara/kami missions, does not lower other. i really hope it's intended for neutrals.
my char has -1 kami and +18 kara fame

Hm... interesting. Don't have much time at the moment to test for myself. So if this is not a bug it seems you will only loose faction fame if you are explicitely doing something against a faction and not just by doing something for the enemy?

[blaah]

Just curious: Did the not working teleports offer you tickets and then told you that you are not allowed do by them via sys info, or didn't they offer you tickets at all?

it shows in sysinfo
---
"You do not have access to a part or the whole of the teleport tickets of this altar because of your allegiances and fames."
---
but those tp's in portal regions, dont give tp's and no error message.
cant read ATS forum, but yeah, i figured that current ATS fame is half baked.

So if this is not a bug it seems you will only loose faction fame if you are explicitely doing something against a faction and not just by doing something for the enemy?

have not yet figured out how to lose fame
they really need to change "np xp - no fame" rule

[marct]

I think we need a little clarification from Nevrax. *SHOUT* Please.

I read Neutrals will not have TP access to regions that are 200+ lvl as being the following regions

Scorched Corridor
Void
Lagoons of Loria
Grove of Confusion.

These regions start at lvl 200 and go to lvl 250 except for the few bosses. Many of you are considerg that regions which are 150-200 are also excluded.

Can we PLEASE get a clarification on this.


@Lathaniel
EDIT: Too much to read nvm that point, I got your point. Actually maybe I can convince you to love Jena. You know, her skin is sooooo smooth and soft.


Noin.

[philu]

hmm I wonder what they will invent..tho I saw new amps in action..."Divine Intervention"..*gasps*..geez they so kewl

There are new amps?