Community opinion on botting

[rushin]

Rushin, I though we swore to keep the secret cave SECRET?


Noh
Zorai
Infinity

Well seeing as last time i waited there 3 hours and you didn't show i think i have a right to share now, dont you??

[thebax]

have u climbed here?
or found the cave?
or worked out exactly where this arrow is pointing? (hard to see but look up from where the cursor is near top of pic)

Yup

Yup

But, lol, nope, never noticed that arrow bug before, hehe. "Second floor, dresses, frocks, and mini-skirts, going up."

I've always thought that cave would make a great portal spot to either the canopy or a hidden land, though. Odd enough placement, that finding it would give an explorer a real thrill.

And I'm sorry too for the off-topic, but Darkmoor is cool

OOC:

[lawrence]

I think if Nevrax's stance is as strict as you claim, the Code of Conduct should actually address the issue. Saying that you are against "bots" when there's nothing in the CoC addressing them still leaves some question as to now much the support staff truly deals with the situation.

[...]

Perhaps there's something stated elsewhere but I was unable to locate it. I checked the "Policies" page on the website and the EULA on game launch.

So-called "bots" are intended to automatically perform actions in the user's absence. They are considered as "macro tools" and their use is strictly forbidden in Saga Of Ryzom, as previously announced by Nevrax in a recent statement regarding the use of 3rd party tools:

Change in the Code of Conduct - Third Party Software by Vince (Head of Customer Support), July 8th 2005
I would like to remind you that the use of third party software, aka macroing, in order to abuse the gameplay is forbidden in Ryzom. The Code of Conduct will be modified to state it clearly, very shortly. Even if it is already stated.

"You will not attempt to interfere with, hack into or decipher any transmissions to or from the servers running Ryzom and on any Ryzom Services or Nevrax Services."

"You may not exploit any bugs in Ryzom and you may not communicate the existence of exploitable bugs (either directly or through public posting) to any other user of Ryzom but report it to Nevrax."

This rule is to be enforced on our servers next week, as a result any account caught abusing Ryzom with one of those tools could end up being either suspended or indefinitly banned from all Ryzom services.

[vutescu]

* a player targets you and he's rude enough not to even answer your "hello" how rude!
-> explanation: player was a botter and was using the autotarget with space. It happened to target me instead! I thought he was just digging but wouldn't talk to me ... how rude ! -- that's how we found a first botter -

* a player is supposed to answer a GM request in a reasonable time. Of course, no GM will think a player is botting just because they won't answer, but still, if you don't answer to a GM request, you better be afk

well, I'm not a boter but I have to not agree with you on those points.

1. I usually keep my chat window closed or only on guild chat. Also I'm not really interested in chatting ingame, and I find those "hello" "good bye" "gratz" "good luck" "have fun" really useless. If you want to communicate something, is no need of time consuming amabilities. You speak / write you message and you get (or not) the response. Also, the personal messages are less important for me than the mats I harvest so if I'm doing something more important (e.g. caring the source), I just close the pm window. No one asked you to say hello to me so be in your way. I don't know you, you don't know me... so why are you talking to me???
(don't want to be rude, but IF you are really in middle of nowhere (IRL), doing something and a complete stranger is coming to you and says "hello" you should start asking yourself what he really wants and get your weapons ready... fast.).
About GM's... they launch private messages, and like I said, conversation is on "low priority" in my list. So I close the pm window... and if is a guide with a "tough name"... he will wait a long time for my reply. I remember how hard I tried to msg Tutenkarn in the first days here... til I read properly and saw that the real name is Turenkarn.



About bots:
Are multiple kind of bots. Macroing bots (run by a script) recording bots (you record your mouse movement then play the recording) and programming bots (are using COM ports to move your mouse and doing tasks).
The CoC "You will not attempt to interfere with, hack into or decipher any transmissions to or from the servers running Ryzom and on any Ryzom Services or Nevrax Services." is not reffering at bots, but at attempts of hacking the server, subnet listening (for passwords) and decrypting the transmissions.
Also with right tools you can even "read" the credit card informations stored on server, or "convince" the server that you are logged in and playing the game (aquiring xp and items) while you are not.
People who know about programming can certify that what I'm saying here is correct.

Punishment for proved boters.
1. -20 levels in all harvesting areas (all terrain)
2. level 20 in ALL areas (fight, magic, craft, harvest - with all the bricks lovered, of course) and losing: all money, all inventory items (appartament / guild), all mekpaks and gaining a DP of about 10 mills
3. deletion of character and 2 weeks ban on the account.

[iphdrunk]

well, I'm not a boter but I have to not agree with you on those points.

It was an example, that happened to me a long time ago. I happen to say hi to diggers that are digging where I am, and oh well, now I know you may not answer back, and I understand your reasons. I just say hi in around chat, no biggie , when I said 'how rude' it was meant in a humorous note. Myself sometimes I don't answer cause I don't see around chat, I'm getting coffee, etc.

And as I stated, none of the points I mentioned is neither a condition to be botting nor a requirement, to not be taken as "proofs"

[alyssah]

1. I usually keep my chat window closed or only on guild chat. Also I'm not really interested in chatting ingame, and I find those "hello" "good bye" "gratz" "good luck" "have fun" really useless.

It must be a real nuisance for you to be in such a friendly community. I hope though that you share the majority dislike of botters?

Since the community is now alerted to 'botting' I would hope that you would co-operate with them to help eliminate this cheat. That would mean that when greeted you respond, even if in a rude, negative fashion.

With your obvious knowledge of botting tactics it would be easy to understand other gamers being suspicious if your character remained uncommunicative when greeted. I'm quite happy for you to answer in as rude a manner as game etiquette permits. However, if I got no reponse then I would feel obliged to report you to CSRs.

I look forward to talking to you ingame.

[vutescu]

It must be a real nuisance for you to be in such a friendly community. I hope though that you share the majority dislike of botters?

Since the community is now alerted to 'botting' I would hope that you would co-operate with them to help eliminate this cheat. That would mean that when greeted you respond, even if in a rude, negative fashion.

With your obvious knowledge of botting tactics it would be easy to understand other gamers being suspicious if your character remained uncommunicative when greeted. I'm quite happy for you to answer in as rude a manner as game etiquette permits. However, if I got no reponse then I would feel obliged to report you to CSRs.

I look forward to talking to you ingame.

Your sarchasm was unnecessary here. I just wanted to point that an uncommunicative player can be easily labeled as "boter" even he is not. Even looks selfish or rude my personal actions (harvesting, crafting, hunting, etc) are far more important than ingame communication.
Blowing up a source and losing mats for typing "hello" is not my ideea of efficiency.

I am against boters. I would not post a punishment for them if I'd be "for" them. In case you did not saw it:

Punishment for proved boters.
1. -20 levels in all harvesting areas (all terrain)
2. level 20 in ALL areas (fight, magic, craft, harvest - with all the bricks lovered, of course) and losing: all money, all inventory items (appartament / guild), all mekpaks and gaining a DP of about 10 mills
3. deletion of character and 2 weeks ban on the account.

And about reporting me or/and talking ingame... I'm afraid you've missed the opportunity. Even my sub is still active (and will be til november) I've quit playing ryzom 2 months ago. This is not stoping me to visit forums or posting. As long we are not in game, we can talk. I'm not losing mats for talking to you here, so feel free.
And no. If I'd be in game, I wouldn't respond to a hello. Even that could label me "boter". I would stop harvesting to rez someone, to nuke a mob that is too close, but not for some useless amabilites.
Sorry, is just me. If my words offended any of you, I apologise. Is the way I see the things.

[alyssah]

With respect, it could also be seen as a botter making excuses in advance. As you are no longer ingame, then that would not be possible, would it?

Anyway, any character not responding ingame can still expect to have CSRs notified.

[vutescu]

With respect, it could also be seen as a botter making excuses in advance. As you are no longer ingame, then that would not be possible, would it?

Anyway, any character not responding ingame can still expect to have CSRs notified.

LOL. I know how to make a bot, as a matter of fact I used them in the past in single player games (eg. Diablo, Diablo 2, Sacred, Fallout 2). But cheating in single player does not affect others. And is not forbidden by anyone / anything.
Cheating in multiplayer, on the other hand, affects all players, and runis the fun for everyone.
Try to log on battle.net and see how many idiots are there trying to sell items. Or see on e-bay how many auctions of in-game items are. Do you think those were aquired legit? No friggin way my friend. Boting.

But hey... try to play Warlords BattleCry 3 and build a base well defended, with towers and dragons. Then go to bed. Wen you wake up, your hero would be +3 or maybe +4 levels more. Is that boting?

[aylwyne]

So-called "bots" are intended to automatically perform actions in the user's absence. They are considered as "macro tools" and their use is strictly forbidden in Saga Of Ryzom, as previously announced by Nevrax in a recent statement regarding the use of 3rd party tools:

Ok, I guess I took that statement by Vince as including what the CoC was going to be ammended to. But it sounds like perhaps the revision to the CoC is underway and not complete yet (as in, the new wording regarding macros isn't there yet). Is that true?