*ooc*And as for clarification, me calling you a coward and traitor is role-play as well. nuff said.yy48n19 wrote:Whatever, Zzei. You can call me all the names you want. You call me coward; I call it roleplay and sticking to a role that I chose to play.
One point, though: cowards tend to not stick up for causes that they believe in, so your insult doesn't stick very well.
As for Mellodi's motvations during the raid and what she actually did and did not do, please read or re-read my post here for some clarification. Sitting idly by is not quite accurate.
Neutrality
Re: Neutrality
Poker of things, caster of sparklies, maker of stuff, digger of dirt, wanderer of paths....
Oh yea, and Princess~
Oh yea, and Princess~
Re: Neutrality
Poking around in the Trench of Trials I had come across a Karavan Agent from the event, and had taken a screenie of it. They had this to say...
Today, the allies of the Karavan will need to brave the Prime Roots darkness in order to free the Tryker nation from the dangers which threatens it. This will not be an easy task, as the primitives hidden in the depths seem to have the protection of the Kamis. It will be necessary to hit fast before the demons of nature move the cutes and gibbais to safety!
the Chiefs of the cutes and gibbai hordes have hidden themselves in a stronghold protected by two advanced camps. These camps have to be taken before attacking the last enemy bastion. When the primitives' chiefs are vanquished, victory will be complete!
It appears that the kami are behind the primitives' invasion. They are wild and unpridictable. They do not understand the Karavan's preoccupations, it seems that they do not even grasp the concept of civilisation. However, they do succeed in making some homins follow them... The Karavan wants to show that it will not let the chaos spread by those demons of nature take hold. It is therefore important that all the primitives responsible for the invasion are destroyed before the Kamis lead them to safety.
Karavan Agents have discovered some sources of rare goo in the depths. Those sources are precious due to a rare concentration : the divine magic of the Karavan could transform them and make them devour the goo visible on the surfaces of Atys. Treat evil with evil... But the Kamis cannot understand this. If the Kamis discover the sources, they will destroy them in blind rage, and accuse the disciples of Jena of everything. Once the threat from those primitives has disappeared, the Karavan will intervene to take the sources from the alllies of the Kamis. -end
Just some food for thought for those who would like to hear what both sides had to say about it... This is the agent in ToT, not Bounty Beaches.
Today, the allies of the Karavan will need to brave the Prime Roots darkness in order to free the Tryker nation from the dangers which threatens it. This will not be an easy task, as the primitives hidden in the depths seem to have the protection of the Kamis. It will be necessary to hit fast before the demons of nature move the cutes and gibbais to safety!
the Chiefs of the cutes and gibbai hordes have hidden themselves in a stronghold protected by two advanced camps. These camps have to be taken before attacking the last enemy bastion. When the primitives' chiefs are vanquished, victory will be complete!
It appears that the kami are behind the primitives' invasion. They are wild and unpridictable. They do not understand the Karavan's preoccupations, it seems that they do not even grasp the concept of civilisation. However, they do succeed in making some homins follow them... The Karavan wants to show that it will not let the chaos spread by those demons of nature take hold. It is therefore important that all the primitives responsible for the invasion are destroyed before the Kamis lead them to safety.
Karavan Agents have discovered some sources of rare goo in the depths. Those sources are precious due to a rare concentration : the divine magic of the Karavan could transform them and make them devour the goo visible on the surfaces of Atys. Treat evil with evil... But the Kamis cannot understand this. If the Kamis discover the sources, they will destroy them in blind rage, and accuse the disciples of Jena of everything. Once the threat from those primitives has disappeared, the Karavan will intervene to take the sources from the alllies of the Kamis. -end
Just some food for thought for those who would like to hear what both sides had to say about it... This is the agent in ToT, not Bounty Beaches.
Poker of things, caster of sparklies, maker of stuff, digger of dirt, wanderer of paths....
Oh yea, and Princess~
Oh yea, and Princess~
Re: Neutrality
Why do I not trust the Kami, I was told to over and over. It would be SO easy to just swallow everything I was told as a child, but unfortunately, our fathers and mothers are not nearly as perfect as we want them to be. They are Homins too.
Why do I not TOTALLY distrust the Karavan? Well I just don't tend to believe that everyone is either perfect OR totally evil without evidence first. A benefit of the doubt kinda thing.
Why do I not side with the Kami? A question of a wise man raised my concerns...If the Kami are the defenders of nature...why aren't they actively fighting the goo? Why are they having US do it, when they have stronger, older magic than we do?
Why do I not side with the Karavan? Call it prejudice...I have trouble with people that hide things from me, not being able to see their faces OR their bodies is a major issue for me. With the Zorai, I can at LEAST see their bodies (LOL and depending upon what armor they have on, I can see ALOT of their bodies), and their mask at least has a mouth and eyes...even if I can't see INTO the mask to see their actual eyes. The Karavan mask covers their face, and has NO mouth and NO eyes. What do they have to hide?
Plus with their VASTLY higher technological level, I am rather certain that the Karavan have something that would fight the goo more effectively than a few dozen players could.
*ooc-thanks for the other side of the coin, it is HARD to make up your mind without hearing the debate.
Why do I not TOTALLY distrust the Karavan? Well I just don't tend to believe that everyone is either perfect OR totally evil without evidence first. A benefit of the doubt kinda thing.
Why do I not side with the Kami? A question of a wise man raised my concerns...If the Kami are the defenders of nature...why aren't they actively fighting the goo? Why are they having US do it, when they have stronger, older magic than we do?
Why do I not side with the Karavan? Call it prejudice...I have trouble with people that hide things from me, not being able to see their faces OR their bodies is a major issue for me. With the Zorai, I can at LEAST see their bodies (LOL and depending upon what armor they have on, I can see ALOT of their bodies), and their mask at least has a mouth and eyes...even if I can't see INTO the mask to see their actual eyes. The Karavan mask covers their face, and has NO mouth and NO eyes. What do they have to hide?
Plus with their VASTLY higher technological level, I am rather certain that the Karavan have something that would fight the goo more effectively than a few dozen players could.
*ooc-thanks for the other side of the coin, it is HARD to make up your mind without hearing the debate.
Re: Neutrality
Thank you kisedd, you have perfectly highlighted the point I was trying to make. Most people chosing neutrality do so believing that others will actually view them as neutrals. While there are some that do, the reality is that most don't. Most take a stark with me or against me view of things and under such a view, neutrals do not get the benefit of the doubt.kisedd wrote:I think both sides are traitors. Those that helped the Zorai are traitors to the Karavan and their own races perhaps. Those that did nothing on purpose, certainly are traitors too.
I can at least respect someone for choosing a side, I can't respect anyone that has no beliefs or convictions.
Sorry for the long delay, I have been unable to post since Friday just after I started this thread
Re: Neutrality
The problem is that this does not explain this one fact: The Wise Gibbaï plainly said that the Karavan used the Goo to infect the Cutes and Gibbaïs. This caused them, the lower homins, to ask the Kami for aid.zzeii wrote:Karavan Agents have discovered some sources of rare goo in the depths. Those sources are precious due to a rare concentration : the divine magic of the Karavan could transform them and make them devour the goo visible on the surfaces of Atys. Treat evil with evil... But the Kamis cannot understand this. If the Kamis discover the sources, they will destroy them in blind rage, and accuse the disciples of Jena of everything. Once the threat from those primitives has disappeared, the Karavan will intervene to take the sources from the alllies of the Kamis.
The Kami have actual Kamis speaking for them, they have Zoraï who have become Kami Adepts and Evoys speaking for them and they have a Gibbaï speaking for them. The Kamis will obviously stick to "the party line." The Zoraï Kami Adepts are still Zoraï and would feel an obligation to tell the truth to their fellow Zoraï, unless the Kamis have brainwashed them of course. The Gibbaï had even less reason to lie. Just telling us the Karavan were trying to kill them would have been enough as the Zoraï generally despise the Karavan and see their followers as misguided. The Gibbaï told us much more, told us that the Karavan were actually behind the infections.
The Karavan, on the other hand, have only Karavan officers, agents and scouts to speak for them. There are no Homins that officially speak on behalf of the Karavan anywhere on Atys. There are no interested third parties, lower homins or tribes, that speak for them. They have plenty of supporters but so do the Kami in that respect.
The Kami have three witnesses to their side of the story: Themselves, the Zoraï Kami Adept and Envoy, and the Wise Gibbaï. Granted, the Zoraï Adept and Evnoy and the Gibbaï are official mouthpieces and an interested third party respectively but that means any Kami conspiracy must either be well fabricated enough to fool all three or must completely involve all three.
The Karavan, have only themselves to trust when it comes to relaying the "truth" about what happened. Any conspiracy is completely safe as they have no other parties that would have to lie for them, either intentionally or through trickery.
Weighing these two situations, I find it easier to trust the Kamis' side of the event. As they have more than just their own to back their claims and their statements more closely fit the reality that we saw.
Re: Neutrality
zzeii wrote:*ooc*And as for clarification, me calling you a coward and traitor is role-play as well. nuff said.
Okay; clarification accepted.
I was confused because, earlier, you had typed this:
zzei wrote:Calling upon the reason of 'not aiding the Karavan(or Kami)' is just a despicable excuse for cowardice...
All RP'ing aside, if your lands are under invasion/attack and you refuse to defend it/offer any aid due to the fact you don't like the 'faction' directing, then you deserve to receive any and all scorn from your fellow Atysians.
"To become fully alive, a person must have goals and aims that transcend himself."
--Herbert Otto
[yy48n19]
Mellodi has left the bark.
--Herbert Otto
[yy48n19]
Mellodi has left the bark.
Re: Neutrality
If what the Karavan agent had said was true, then of course the Wise Gibbai would blame the karavan since the kami and gibbai are on the same side, and the gibbai are seeking protection with the kami.gralen wrote:The problem is that this does not explain this one fact: The Wise Gibbaï plainly said that the Karavan used the Goo to infect the Cutes and Gibbaïs. This caused them, the lower homins, to ask the Kami for aid.
Both sides have their allies and 'spokesman', the Karavan Agent that I had spoken with in Trench of Trials, along with the Karavan Agent in Windemeer, were both Tryker. And at various Karavan Alters in the roots, there are non-Karavan Karavan Agents (including a tryker and a zorai).gralen wrote:The Kami have actual Kamis speaking for them, they have Zoraï who have become Kami Adepts and Evoys speaking for them and they have a Gibbaï speaking for them. The Kamis will obviously stick to "the party line." The Zoraï Kami Adepts are still Zoraï and would feel an obligation to tell the truth to their fellow Zoraï, unless the Kamis have brainwashed them of course. The Gibbaï had even less reason to lie. Just telling us the Karavan were trying to kill them would have been enough as the Zoraï generally despise the Karavan and see their followers as misguided. The Gibbaï told us much more, told us that the Karavan were actually behind the infections.
The Karavan, on the other hand, have only Karavan officers, agents and scouts to speak for them. There are no Homins that officially speak on behalf of the Karavan anywhere on Atys. There are no interested third parties, lower homins or tribes, that speak for them. They have plenty of supporters but so do the Kami in that respect
I just posted word-for-word what the Tryker Karavan Agent in the Trench of Trials had said (and is still saying for that matter >.>). I was just putting forth information that hasn't been stated, so people can read both sides of the story and make up their own minds. Personally, I believe both sides are hiding something, and both are speaking the truth to some extent. There is no clear cut, 'one side is telling the whole truth, and the other is lieing'. I see 3 factions here, kami, karavan, and gibbai/cute. Now if the karavan were to be against both the kami and gibbai/cute, would it not make sense for them both to join up together against the Karavan? Hrmm....just something to think about.
Poker of things, caster of sparklies, maker of stuff, digger of dirt, wanderer of paths....
Oh yea, and Princess~
Oh yea, and Princess~
Re: Neutrality
yy48n19 wrote:Okay; clarification accepted.
I was confused because, earlier, you had typed this:
Sorry for the confusion there...Allow me to rephrase...
Irregardless for your RP-based reasoning behind your actions, if your lands are under invasion/attack and you refuse to defend it/offer any aid due to the fact you don't like the 'faction' directing, then you deserve to receive any and all scorn from your fellow Atysians.
Poker of things, caster of sparklies, maker of stuff, digger of dirt, wanderer of paths....
Oh yea, and Princess~
Oh yea, and Princess~
Re: Neutrality
Weeee feathers are begginning to fly
This could get interesting.
*witty retort From yyn(i cant spell the rest of that out) pending*
Nothing below the belt gentlemen. Winner takes the flamer of the day award.
Flamer in the forum sense.
This could get interesting.
*witty retort From yyn(i cant spell the rest of that out) pending*
Nothing below the belt gentlemen. Winner takes the flamer of the day award.
Flamer in the forum sense.
Am i supposed to write something witty here ?