Ryzom

I hate to tell you this but I do know most of the pizza delivery drivers and we chat it up quite a bit. I know the FedEx guy and I ask him about his work a lot and we trade jokes. I think some of you are mixing up the idea of fame in real life with what it does in game as well.

First, I want to talk about this real life "fame" though. You might know Michael Jackson from his songs, TV, and coverage of his courts, but you wouldn't trust him to be your kids' bus driver. For that matter, would you trust him to deliver your Fed Ex packages or deliver pizza in your community?

Part of the fame aspect in Ryzom is supposed to be how much you have been a beneficial partner to that faction. Whether it is like a drug boss knowing that you can reliably deliver his crack cocaine on time and without any missing units to his distributor in Michael Jackson's back yard or it is customer knowing you can deliver his pizza as promised with all the right toppings, hot, and without crashing into his Christmas display in the front yard ... that is what matters to your "customer" faction or your "boss" faction.

So let's not confuse too much what "fame" is. It actually sounds as if this "fame" variable may be doing two jobs at once and that is going to cause the very problem Raynes is highlighting.

A hero will have fame in such a crisis environment as Saga of Ryzom indicates. Sure he might get a slightly better chance of getting a break on trades but when you go over to Joe Schmo the neighborhood smith, that you have helped protect 10 straight convoys for, and smithy boy hasn't had time to look at the CBS Evening News with Hank Superhero of Ryzom Battle 1 this week, he's going to go to you for the next escort mission, not Hank Superhero.

You don't have the same specialties even. Who says he needs Arnold Schwartzeneggar, maybe he needs Frodo the Hobbit, or someboy who can smooth over missions and handle them quietly. He goes to you because he knows what you can do and you've come through before, he doesn't give you a mission if he doesn't think it's your type deal of if you are some unknown Superdude hidden behind the latest Hollywood shades and sporting a fake beard to hide yourself from the adoring fans of Ryzom wannabee groupies.

So, Raynes has a definite point, but I won't go totally with it either. The problem to me is that Fame, either in this thread , or in the game, is just doing too much the same job.

Conan the Destroyer deserves his title, but he doesn't deserve the same sort of reliability rating or local fame or factional fame as Raynes the Fixer and Convoy Escort guy. You want it fixed or escorted, you pick Raynes. You want it destroyed in battle, you pick Conan. There may be some overlap, but it has to be earned.

Lastly, I take great issue with one person's implied concept that hey in real life Fame is impossible to understand. I agree that many singers etc can't sing worth a damn, but that is no reason to add that into an online game's fame system. You couldn't code such idiocy in anyway. That's the material point.

Behind this game are programs, commands and variables put in and selected to work in specific ways by the designers of the game. They didn't invent a fame and faction system to simulate the oddity of some people still thinking that Queen Latifah is a sex symbol. No that's for psychiatrists and image marketers to play around with in the real freakin' and stupid world. Here we have a game made up of program code and supposedly logical choices. The only way you can get Ms QL to look that way in game is by a programming error, and let's not start campaigning for more unintended consequences as being what we desire in our games to mimic real life. Why? Because once you do you are saying you want to have bugs in your game. You also are implying that you understand real life and why it is sometimes as idiotic as it seems. In either case, let me assure you that you are dead wrong.

Anyway, more to the point and specific to this case. The event did deserve some fame and faction gain, there is no doubt about that. But perhaps with the Kami generals or the high court or those impacted specifically by the resolution of the Event's problem, certainly not to exceed the efforts of Rayne with his specific Kami contacts, for example. 35-90 is a huge stretch, there is no way that Rayne's main contacts in Kami faction are going to see a famous Event solver as the superior to an established known fixer like Rayne for most of their missions. End of story.

The other thing that is paramount is to understand that Raids have two major problems as issues that make this sort of all encompassing fame gain potentially damaging and will irritate many players. Events like these separate the haves from the have-nots . That is, you must have the time to be on during the raids and you also have to be able to have a machine and hook up that allows you to handle such a live mass event. If you don't, you are on a life raft in the middle of the pacific crying foul.

Fame decay will cause a problem with the casual player, so it can't be excessive and it doesn't really address the problems cited above. You have a fame bonus that is being, either incorrectly in this thread, or in the actual program, being attached to too many purposes. Faction ratings should not be mainly impacted by one universal fame rating and certainly not by fame gathered solely off an event.

I pardon the length of this post, but I have neither the time nor the willingness to condense it further. I also however cannot let some of the thoughts here go without commenting. Thanks for reading.

gralen wrote:You're forgetting that the war hero you're so blithely dismissing just SAVED their lives by helping defeat a terrible invader. This is not some history lesson, this is happening now. You're also forgetting that this "no-name" war hero answered the call of the Kami, proved his undying (by being willing to die) loyalty to the Kami and was rewarded for that effort. Of course the war hero is going to gain the fame and respect of the Kami and the Homins who, for whatever reason, did not step up to the task will not gain that fame and respect.

Also, don't forget that you yourself acknowledge these warriors as heros and no matter how much I love pizza, the delivery boy is no hero.

That may be the case but, seeing how much fame was affected by one event, I now see no point in doing either Zoria or Kami missions. I'll just wait for the next event.

Also, I died in that team that stayed behind to defend that last outpost. Seeing as how the fame in question was recieved for killing Antikamis in the roots, none of those people who stayed behind recieved any fame for their sacrafice.

I must admit there are aspects I agree with here. Though not in my guild, a valiant tryker took part in this ordeal, from the Kami side (her guild has great kami fame and she has worked hard for kami fame) While her group fought beside her and they got the rewards and the title, she got nothing. No amount of hand waving can make this seem right. Sorry, on this issue I have to agree with Raynes.

Maybe a war hero who accomplishes a particularly difficult task would be well-known, but everyone in the army going from nobody to legendary based on one battle? I think it's a little extreme. These tasks aren't delivering pizza, they are protecting the land, bringing necessary supplies, things like that. Usually they involve risking your life and/or dropping a lot of money. Doing 200 of those quests should be more significant than being one of a large group of fighters. Also the stakes of this event were apparently rather low - the Karavan side failed and there haven't been any major consequences.

I don't think anyone is arguing with a significant fame boost, but many players apparently came close to reaching the maximum for Kami fame just by participating in one event. When a single event can do that, it devalues fame in general.

Another thing, imagine what could potentially happen to our civilization fame if a bunch of people who don't care about their fame go rushing off to other lands to take part in event just because the event is there. That event changed fame from something you carefully sculpted and nursed, until it grew slowly into what you want, into a rollercoaster ride.

The instructions say civilization fame is supposed to be hardest to change. As of last weekend, I don't see it.

jdiegel wrote:That may be the case but, seeing how much fame was affected by one event, I now see no point in doing either Zoria or Kami missions. I'll just wait for the next event.

Which is, of course, your choice.

jdiegel wrote:Also, I died in that team that stayed behind to defend that last outpost. Seeing as how the fame in question was recieved for killing Antikamis in the roots, none of those people who stayed behind recieved any fame for their sacrafice.

Actually, we were seeing fame increases from the very first outpost at the Grove of Umbra Chasm. The problem was that you had to be in the team that was awarded the kill. That is a problem with the one team rule and any large event, even world travel. Only one small group of 9 can be awarded credit for a kill even if members of nine different teams were actually crucial to making the kill. That is a bad deal.

As to the defenders who stayed behind, the design was that they would be able to join us in the roots to gain the title (they would have gained more fame by continuing to kill the Cutes and Gibbaïs trying to retake Withered Stock). Unfortunately, the server crash reset the camp on the ramp which prevented travel down to the roots even though the title was available for all the victors to claim for a full half hour after the event was complete. Had the server not crashed, all those who were defending could have easily gained the title during that final half-hour.

jivalax wrote:I must admit there are aspects I agree with here. Though not in my guild, a valiant tryker took part in this ordeal, from the Kami side (her guild has great kami fame and she has worked hard for kami fame) While her group fought beside her and they got the rewards and the title, she got nothing. No amount of hand waving can make this seem right. Sorry, on this issue I have to agree with Raynes.

All one had to do to get the title was click on the Kami Lord. If she was there and didn't click...what can be done?

I'm not concerned about the title. Titles mean nothing. I was referring specifically to Fame.

omg what a bunch of jealous babies!

I like it the way it is and think it's fair. That's why you DON'T miss events. All those other things you do for them for fame is piddley compared to this. Those are little errands compared to SAVING the land and their race! When they need us most we need to be there for them. And they will be grateful for it. Also we didn't get all that fame just by finishing the mission. We got tons of it by fighting and killing their enemies. We killed TONS of them. The ANTIKAMI gave a lot of fame. And they are hard to take down even in a large group. We had to go through a LOT of them. And I was on for a solid 12 hours playing with 100 people or so! Of course we will get fame faster and lot of it, we had 100 people AND it's an important event!

Hey raynes dont forget the people who fought and died for you at the event worked VERY hard to protect your butt from the invaders. I see you complain about this fame thing but yet if you had been in the event(im not sure if you were) I think i saw you around in the start....you would have gotten the fame to. So would you be complaining about that...

Everyone has a choice to work hard to get fame up threw missions....or.....work hard in a raid and die for the kami and get fame for that. I see nothing wrong with both. If you dont like the missions wait till the event comes and do them...if you dont like the events do the missions....in the end its your choice. Eather way your still wroking hard.

Personally I do both missions and events because i love the Kami. I feel your frustration and disappointment are due to you not being in the event. So i guess you will have to wait till the next one.....real sorry but life is just not fair no matter how much you complain about it.

We all work hard not just you raynes.