Ryzom

whiterider wrote: Thanks, Sweets - that's fantastic. It'll be very helpful, especially with the matis and tryker rites, that I can't even touch right now.

Nudge nudge, wink wink, say no more.. say no more..

It's good to see activity on the forums again, things happening, Fyrosians going crazy. Also good to see you're taking a good approach to giving information on the rites. Hopefully this super-secret font filled patch will have some more rites in place as well (not holding my breath, but one can dream about soon(tm)).

Peace,
- Sui

pre156kt wrote:Gotta respect the diversity of gaming styles that people have.
Not everyone enjoys exploration without having an immediately visible and clear goal (and a sense of reward). And the fact that someone doesn't enjoy 'smelling the roses' as we do doesn't automatically make them bad and evil powerlevelers that will spoil our gameplay.

An immediate goal I can fully understand and respect, but having the path to said goal provided by a third party so I don´t have to go through the "trouble" of finding out how is simply lame.
And ultimately boring.

CU
Acridiel

I felt that BM had a nice balance(I'm prolly biased ). Letting you know which rites were active and who to talk to to start them without actually leading you through every detail. With so many non working entries it kept you from wasting time. If all of the encyclopedia were completed discovery would be more fun. Taking most missions would lead you somewhere. As it stands most missions are more annoying then entertaining. It's why we tell new players that Ryzom is not a quest based game.

I think missions/rites were one thing always promised to be reworked - but so far not much happened. I can see the new Silan and Welcomer missions to be better crafted, yet the mindless map markers have been introduced with them.

I think it is rather difficult to find this exact way between frustration and amusement. Even for the most obvious hint you need usually some knowledge of the area / game.

With this we are back to the basic problem of any game/mmo: Motivation.
Not too hard, not too easy. I'm struggling myself with solutions here, been thinking alot abou this issue. Yet no real ideas so far

On the topic of help with missions - it would be nice if the mechanics provided knowledge or help equivalent to what someone would really give you if you were setting out on an important task. That help would probably be different for different people, based on their experience and ability. (Yes, I know, easier said than done, I'm just wishing here.)

I think the map markers on Silan are entirely appropriate. If you were giving a task to someone with limited experience and knowledge, wouldn't you want to give them a map with the location marked on it? And specific warnings about dangers? And hints about things that could be of assistance?

On the other hand, giving that same level of help to someone intimately familiar with the locations and threats would not be necessary.

I think having that sort of info available if you need it is a good thing, since it is sometimes not available in the game right now. Nobody is forced to use it, and nobody gains really significant advantages (in competitive terms) from abusing it.

The ideal situation, given current mechanics, would be for every new homin to have a mentor to turn to for advice when things are confusing. That's not really feasible in every case though, so we have Uni, but that can be hit and miss sometimes - especially with things like rites that not everyone has done. So a wiki format with spoiler warnings serves a good purpose.

I had an experience recently that refreshed my awareness of the steepness of the Ryzom learning curve. I have a good friend who I thought might really enjoy Ryzom. She's a very experienced MMO player, all the way back to MUD days. She's far from unintelligent (she's a university professor) and she's an enthusiastic roleplayer. I had her read some of the Ryzom lore before starting, and I created a new character to accompany her on Silan. The first few melee missions went smoothly... too smoothly, I think. When we got to the hunting of weeny raguses she died repeatedly, expecting to be able to charge in and wipe them like yubos - despite my warnings to the contrary. The sudden leap in difficulty from dead easy click and kill to the need for careful pulling, sneaking, and aggro management skills proved very frustrating for her. Add to that dying and having to learn quickly about respawning, the respawn timer, the ability to choose your respawn location, death penalty, and then just dying again, and suddenly her interest in the game died as well. She never got to the good parts at all. I do still hope to re-introduce her to it, but it hasn't happened yet.

The point being, even with a friend with a good deal of experience standing right there with you, the knowledge challenges can be daunting, especially for someone still learning everything. A little assistance is not a bad thing when the alternative is frustration to the point of unsubscribing.

I do appreciate Acridiel's view, and respect him deeply, but if we limit the game's population to those with the patience for that approach, then I fear all twelve of us will have a grand old time for a few months until the game goes belly up for lack of funds. (again)
((and yes, that's hyperbole, but I hope you get my intent))

With that said, I'm afraid I must admit that I've not completed any rites yet, so I can't help with the wiki. I'm grateful to those who have and are willing to spend their valuable time sharing their knowledge.

Well... in the last few days I´ve accompanied a very friendly and cool Newbe and I´ve witnessed him almost giving up on a mission because there was no arrow to point him to the "Ragus and Gingos on the road outside Yrkanis" he was supposed to hunt.
I told him, "Hey it says outside the City, so why don´t you just go outside and look what you can find there."
His reply was: "How was I supposed to know?" -.-

Ok, now the point is quite arguable, but either he´s not as clever as I thought, or the missions MUST have these pointers. As far as I could glean from him, he just didn´t bother to read the Missions text until I told him so.
He was looking for "the arrow to point him the way". To which he was used to from some Asia Grinder he had played before. *shudder*

I think its rather saddening if not really, really scary that normal people (I think he´s in his late 20s to early 30s, having a wife and a child) can´t play a game without blatant visual help and/or someone else helping them along.

What does that say about society in general?
What does it say about "gaming culture" specifically?

And sorry to say so, but just take a look at all those other free and not free games out there, sample that which they call a "community" and experience the general attitude of many vocal "Gamers" towards each other and the games they play, and you´ll get a good picture of what the dark underside of western and eastern society looks like.

I can only hope and pray to the "Gods of Gaming" that our new Devs will find some good middle ground to go walk on the path to a "better" and "new gaming experience"...

Heed the lessons of SWG.

CU
Acridiel

I have to agree with acridiel. It seems the new players (not saying all new players) feel they need a symbol above the head or an arrow showing where they should go.

I remember the first time I had to find something. I looked and looked and threw up my hands and was very frustrated. Then I took a minute to relax and thought umm gee this is going to make me actually think and do it on my own.

So then I did it again oh yes and again. I felt such great joy when I finally succeeded. Yes also in the repeated dying on that mission on Silan with the sweet lovely little things that are out to get you. Until you think umm maybe I shouldn't charge in there, let me stand back and see where they actually go.
Yes you have to think and learn, which seems to hard for some to understand.

I started Ryzom back in the day they had the 4 starter islands, let me tell you Silan is far easier and there is much more information. When I first started I died so many times and that it was not funny, until a friend that had introduced me to the game said "Have you ever thought maybe you should think what to do".

The main thing I find is people don't read the mission data. They just click and go. Nooooo Read, Read. It is helpful and interesting.

Remember Read, Think and Plan

Lets not forget that on the original starter islands you started with 100 less hps. Was easily possible to die fighting a yubo.I know because I did more then once .