Ryzom

gillest wrote:Am pretty sure that statement is wrong (or I am from the 5%); been organized is good: I am sure you would see many neutral attend the spank n dig events if those keep going...

Maybe neutrals have a different view of this planet that grouping to gank their own kind: nothing to do with organization

As a reminder; neutrals managed in Dunes episodes to spank both factions at same time

I've got to disagree with you fairly heavily, gillest. Homins had cult and racial segregation and tension long before the Kitin threat. The kitin invasion was a direct result of homin action.

As far as the discussion of neutrals go, you seem to be muddling gameplay and game mechanics together. Gameplay, and particularly in an RP sense, should have a reason for being neutral, since they were likely raised with prejudices which would continue in normal homin interactions in the main cities. I understand your argument, as my main character is neutral at heart (for various reasons), but you shouldn't post non-gameplay/RP stances in the guise of a roleplay one. It makes the arguments difficult to digest.

Peace,
- Sui

Just to start out, let me say I am not inherently against any form of 3rd faction.
Trytonism may be a poor option, for some reasons already mentioned and one more I'd like to touch on.

Trix, sorry to quote out-of-thread, but this is a good setup -

901941 wrote:Maybe that's why there should be a third faction, one that represents the homins and not religion.

I believe this is what a lot of people want out of a third faction, but it is precisely what needs to be avoided.
The beauty of our current two faction system is there is no good or bad, no right and wrong. There are two groups of mysterious, powerful entities who offer that which homins can not obtain on their own in return for support. Groups similar in action, but different in ideology.
Now, if a third faction were introduced that offered a moral highground- "For Homins!" -it would greatly disrupt any semblance of balance. If a player doesn't join them, they must be anti-homin, now? How many new players are going to join these old shadowy, controversial factions anymore after that?

Any new faction that is created must come with its own drawbacks and tradeoffs.
That means if they want to be "for homins" they'll likely have to tradeoff some of the faction rewards in return.
Which basically brings us back to the neutral option we already have in game...





Disclaimer: Factioned/Neutral and PvP/anti-PvP issues are separate topics, and nothing in this post addresses the latter.

How about a Kitin Thrall faction then It would be a( slightly unhealthy) alternative to the mysterious powers. If only Kitins could provide some special mat that would make uber cool gear only allowed to this faction Why we'd have quite a few converts right then and there

Triton is cool as an action figure but not cool as an official faction starter cause he makes the other too obsolete. So I kinda agree with Sehraci there.

sehracii wrote:Any new faction that is created must come with its own drawbacks and tradeoffs. That means if they want to be "for homins" they'll likely have to tradeoff some of the faction rewards in return. Which basically brings us back to the neutral option we already have in game...

Trytonist teachings already have a significant drawback for players. When last we heard from Tryton (from the original writer I believe), he was calling on his followers to conquer outposts from Kami and Karavan followers, and then not to build any drills upon them. He called for homins to forgo the evil benefits of outposts and to deny those benefits to factioned homins as well. As far as I know, no one on Arispotle ever heeded his call ....

I can't help but wonder what the purpose of neutrality is. Is it just a way to allow people to choose a side or do neutrals have a place in the saga? In other words game mechanics v.s. Lore....

In an (much) earlier discussion about this someone justified neutrals not having access to PR and lvl 250 TP's by saying that it was supposed to be hard to be neutral but that only makes sense if Trytonists do occupy some kind of moral highground. On the other hand if it's just a matter of game mechanics then what's the point of Tryton? (other then some flimsy excuse to have an unaligned option in the first place)

A title declaring yourself "Trytonist" is not a good idea but if neutrality is more than just a coders sollution to switching sides and neutrals do have a role to play in the game some benefits might be in order if only to bring them on equal footing with factioned players...

Leave it to you to quote my brain farts, Serahci.

Trytonist I think are the perfect set up for a third faction because of their current secret workings within the factions. As we all know it is an NPC faction and no player has ever been known to be part of it. We know that Elias has technology and understand the powers of the Karavan and the Kami. He opened the portals and was there for homins during the swarming. He could be used to bring forth a third faction. By all means this does not mean that a Tryton faction is perfect and the right way therefore all should join…nor does it mean they have to be a secret faction any longer. The point is to flesh them out and make them a viable faction against the current two. Elias I’m sure has his own goals and personal agenda. He is as mysterious as Jena and Ma-Duk, and can have equal powers as far as technology and magic are concern.

Many of you have great opinions and bring up good points I honestly didn’t consider. But assuming that all Karavans and Kami creatures follow their leaders without questioning their motives is insular. Yes we have neutrality. Again everyone confuses neutrality with a third faction. They are two different topics. I am talking about an opposing faction that stands against the current two equally strong as a third option for players. Not a neutral faction. Is this third faction for the homins? I’d like to think that it can be but if we know anything for sure about Ryzom is that nothing is certain. The Kami and the Karavan factions are there for the homins aren’t they? Fiach compared a third faction to a resistance and that is the perfect analogy of how I see Trytonist.

What would this third faction offer? Let’s start with teleports, new gear, new lands to explore, and to push the current storyline forward. Maybe this third faction will offer “neutrals” teleportation to high level areas. I personally would like for them to offer information about Atys, add to the lore, and open new lands to explore. There are an infinite of reasons to add a third faction and I can’t even imagine how developers can start or even consider doing so. Heck as far as we all know they aren’t and we are just adding one more wish of things to the list. But I would definitely like to see a third faction. I think the game needs it, and from an RP point of view and living the saga it makes the most sense to me that homins would stop following the Gods and seek other sources of wealth and power for their own personal gains, as well as for the betterment of hominity when the gods only offer division and conflict…

Oops… I’m mixing my character’s views with game mechanics… how silly of me.

michielb wrote:I can't help but wonder what the purpose of neutrality is. Is it just a way to allow people to choose a side or do neutrals have a place in the saga? In other words game mechanics v.s. Lore....

For me, I want the gameplay to match the lore. I am a Kamist, and not a person who's at war with Karavanists. But there are no Kamists who are not at war with Karavanists. And yet we're freely trading goods between us as if nothing were happening.
At the very least, I want some lore acknowledgement that there are Kamists and Karavanists who are free to be neutral and only support their faction defensively rather than offensively. I really hate the initiation mission where you're told "This guy stole something from us. Go kill him." Your act of loyalty is to take their word for it and kill someone. The NPC doesn't even attack on sight. There's also no diplomatic route. Not even an attempt that ends the same way. "I've been told you stole something of ours." "You can't have it, Kamist scum! *attack*" It goes against not only what I believe, but how I PLAY. After that mission, I don't behave that way again. It's an artificial throwback to an age where you're forced into roles you don't believe with no alternative. (again, why I think most players gladly went into the PR for that recent event, even though on a lore-basis, it was probably a stupid thing. No one thought the game had any alternatives, so there's no consequences of "going with the herd")


I don't mind a disadvantage for neutral players, but I want there to be a compromise between [picking no attitude at all, or the current neutral option] and [actually picking an attitude that says you help everyone who's not offensive, and your role is mostly defensive]. There's a difference.
Currently there is no advantage to being neutral. People pick it because they feel they can't pick the game mechanic option that conflict with their lore/gameplay style. Strong convictions, but they pay the price, that others who feel they can be neutral without sacrificing an alignment do not have to pay. Those who pick a faction but play neutral are at very few detriments other than that of inter-guild politics, and even then, it seems to not be inherently negative.
I'd be fine with neutrals ALWAYS having the less-convenient of the TPs in a 250 region, rather than NONE at all. I'm not sure how that'd work in PR though.

I personally like less black & white choices. I don't even want to be a Trytonist, I just want to be an inclusive player. Well, I'm not sure. I'd have to hear the arguments for his actively warring against the other two factions. That said, there are detriments to using force to achieve the objectives. I would put weight on the value of not creating/releasing an uncontrollable monster in Kitin/Goo/Dragon, but currently there is no option for that. I support not making things worse, and to me, the Kami reflect that; but there's also some ignorance in not studying the Kitin and goo that does us no good, and that's a positive that the Karavan reflect. I honestly don't think burying our heads in the sand when it comes to this is the ideal situation, but I don't think the Kami beliefs reflect that. Fight, yes, but not understand. What if blind fighting against the goo is only making it worse, like cutting off the head of a hydra?

I hope that most of us would prefer that they follow a story-plot line as opposed to following the whims of some in the player base. I see no/zero mechanical reason to add a third faction. I see no story line reason for a third dominant faction to suddenly appear now.

All that being said, if I understood the last post by the event manager, we are going to have 4 sub factions added very soon. And I bet, there will be players screaming for a fifth. We want the "all things to all people" sub race." Here is where, The Tryton story line can be built. Go against the nations, not the factions.

However, if I was the writer, I would make it dirty, I would make it painful, I would make it far from heroic. It could be played as a peaceful Gandhi type movement, but I suspect players would be more attracted more to action then sit ins and that means subversion, betrayal, assassination. It would mean breaking the status quo in order to create an opportunity to break Homins free from their overlords. It would not be about building, it would be about destroying to rebuild a Homin only world. Sure it would start as a peaceful, love your neighbor, lets go protest and be all morally superior club, just open a couple of doors though, and I am sure some would jump on the chance to steal, kill, etc.....all in the name of Homin glory of course.

I realize I care way more about the why, the hows, and meaning of the saga then I should. The lore is amazing and is the strongest selling point of the game for me. I just hope the new owners not only understand it, but have the will to follow it and will not backdown when vocal parts of the playerbase are not happy with parts of the storyline. Case in point, the temple wars and the spires that were scheduled to follow that were suspended cause the players did not want them (at least that was the developers excuse).

bah, typed a 10,000 word essay, only to be timed out, oh well, to sumerise

in a few words, yep, if done right, new area, events, not forgotten about, leaked document sugests humanism/atheism, scientists, please progress story, race mentioned in lore, assasin bad, tryton ignored, all trytonists left atleast 18 months ago, new please but please add mechanics to game else its dumb,

aorry if its brief, if you want me to ellaborate on any points I will

danolt wrote:I hope that most of us would prefer that they follow a story-plot line as opposed to following the whims of some in the player base. I see no/zero mechanical reason to add a third faction. I see no story line reason for a third dominant faction to suddenly appear now.

Everything is stale and meaningless as it is belonging to a faction only means teleport access. Not a major storyline driven faction there. You make it sound like tomorrow we'll have a patch and boom, new faction, bringing a third faction isn't an overnight request. I think we know that. I'm sorry that you think the idea of a thrid faction is based on inpulse and not a necessity to the current game set up. At least 17 others also have a passing impulse to the idea.

All that being said, if I understood the last post by the event manager, we are going to have 4 sub factions added very soon. And I bet, there will be players screaming for a fifth. We want the "all things to all people" sub race." Here is where, The Tryton story line can be built. Go against the nations, not the factions.

They also said we players we'll have an impact on the saga and that players will have the oportunity to leave their marks on Atys - all wonderful things, still not a reason not to consider a third faction.

I just hope the new owners not only understand it, but have the will to follow it and will not backdown when vocal parts of the playerbase are not happy with parts of the storyline. Case in point, the temple wars and the spires that were scheduled to follow that were suspended cause the players did not want them (at least that was the developers excuse).

Oh god no please do not give us rush PvP content that forces everyone to participate just to earn honor points. And definetly do not bring spires into the game...please listen to me I know it all and I'm always right about these things.