Ryzom

faedyne wrote:As I understood it, there are no minerals on Ryzom. Maybe I'm misunderstanding, and it's only metals, but if there really was rock around, wouldn't it be a material we could forage?

I suspect "glass" on Ryzom is either amber (hardened sap) or things like insect wings. (I think the Matis might have these in their buildings)

acridiel wrote:
Carefull there.
There aren´t any larger deposits of minerals. Which is a big difference.
Atys isn´t entirely devoid of any minerals. Life wouldn´t be possible without them.
Things like clay, mud and simple earth are there for sure. Plants couldn´t grow without.
The only thing missing are real Mineral deposits.
For example: Enough ore to smelt it and shape into a weapon.
Or any precious metals, like gold, silver, or platinum.
Except for shells, which are composed of lime (calcium carbonate) and there seem to be plenty lying around.

Or larges stones for that matter.
Of course, somewhere deep beneath the Prime Roots, there´s got to be an actual solid rock planet core, so to speak, for the "motherplant" to grow on.
Any larger stones, would probably have fallen off/down and been covered by Atys in its process of growth and/or vanished over time due to erosion.
You don´t see any large stones lying around on RL trees, don´t you?

On the matter of "sand". I guess that it might be a good mixture of both. True sand and wood- chippings and -dust.
Both are light enough to be carried by strong winds and heavy enough to settle in a natural bowl, which Fyros in fact is. (And Tryker too, for that matter)
Still quite flammable but good enough for plants to grow on.
And because the desert being what it is and with high probability being heated from beneath, by "burning sap veins" spoken of in the lore,
it´s always kept pretty dry. The "geysers" and spouts of flame in Scorched Corridor, Flaming Forest and of course Pyrs own gates, are testament to a smoldering fire beneath Fyros.
Could be something like a really huge "coal-fire", which in addition to the suns heat dries the bark above almost to cinders.

`Nuff said

CU
Acridiel

(( Speculation from the Dark Dream (real world) follows))

Atys is a rock world covered in kilometers of dense vegetative growth (you can find a cut-away of Atys in any of the recent (3+ year old) webkits or at the EncyclopAtys). The real question is whether Atys grew that way or was engineered that way. As the old legends and myths have homins being brought to Atys from afar, I would guess the later.

One problem, though, is the "sand" in the Fyros and Tryker lands. If we hold to the "no rocks" theory then all that sand has to be vegetative matter and, as such, would likely float in water. We can't just pass it off as being fine amber dust because amber, again, floats in water. Perhaps Atysian amber is much denser than terrestrial amber and so sinks in water?

gralen wrote:(( Speculation from the Dark Dream (real world) follows))

Atys is a rock world covered in kilometers of dense vegetative growth (you can find a cut-away of Atys in any of the recent (3+ year old) webkits or at the EncyclopAtys). The real question is whether Atys grew that way or was engineered that way. As the old legends and myths have homins being brought to Atys from afar, I would guess the later.

One problem, though, is the "sand" in the Fyros and Tryker lands. If we hold to the "no rocks" theory then all that sand has to be vegetative matter and, as such, would likely float in water. We can't just pass it off as being fine amber dust because amber, again, floats in water. Perhaps Atysian amber is much denser than terrestrial amber and so sinks in water?

Uhm, calcium carbonate again?
Many island beaches in the south sea are almost entirely composed of it.
Hawaiis famous white beaches for example Coral Sand.
And like I said just one post above yours, it´s entirely possible for "true" sand to exists.
Tiny, tiny, tiny bits of shell, and coral, ground down by the tides and fish poop
And for that matter, most of Aeden Aqeous "formations" do look more like weathered coral reefs to me than actual wooden cliffs, like in Fyros.
Note the difference in structure and color to actual roots reaching into the waters in liberty lake and darkmoor.

Sorry, But I sometimes get the feeling that nobody does read my posts anymore.

CU
Acridiel

About "sand". Many plants on earth have a silicaceous component to their bark or stem material (rattan and bamboo are excellent examples). This is to say, that in addition to the organic components, there is silicon dioxide, which is to say, sand, just like sand weathered from minerals. In addition most bone has a large amount of calcium minerals in it, and this, too will weather to sand.

(In addition, physical action will drag particles of the Core up to the surface when the largest trees/ parts of the Canopy are ripped up.)

Sand can be converted to glass at temperatures that are (moderately) easily achievable in a wood-stoked furnace, so glass is a definite possibility, though I suspect that the windows we see are more likely to be processed Kitin carapace.

About oil: Plant oils can be heated and will produce changes in other components that adjust their characteristics. One example on earth is "boiling" leather, where one heats it to cross-link the fibers, making it hard if you do it to one degree and making it brittle (and capable of holding a sharp edge for a while) if you do it to another degree. Another example is the infusion of oil into another substance to render it more flexible or waterproof.

Oil might also be used to extract fibers from materials not normally thought of as fibrous, such as shell. Chitin, a major component of shell and nails/claws, is actually fibrous.

Interesting thread, even to a non-newb like myself.

--Odo

I don't know if it could possibly make sense in any way. If there are minerals, why aren't they part of the resources you can gather and the technology that's been developed? If they're in everything, and there's actual mineral dirt on the ground, it could be refined into usable material, but that's not what we get.

On the other hand, I'm not sure you can have plant an animal life without minerals of some kind. Even if there's such a limited amount that it only exists in living creatures, what is the mineral cycle like that could sustain such a world?

Maybe the idea that there was a planet before Ryzom is more realistic, despite the lore saying that the entire planet came from interstellar seeds. I imagine those were big seeds packed with a lot of minerals. and water?? Yeah. Unless the Ryzom are "magical" plants that can create matter (minerals and water) from the sun's radiation, then there was a planet with minerals and water before. I just can't see a seed that supplies all that. It's impractical. It would be huge.


Also, I agree that oil and secretions could be used in crafting the way you describe, I just disagree that they're used in the same category that they currently are shown to in the game. Boiling leather in oil or staining it is not lining, it's a treatment. And staining it, while closer to a "lining" than boiling it in, is purely aesthetic.

As a lining, couldn't you thicken the oil and secretion up, or maybe bag it, and thus make it usable as lining?

When little brother gets back from his tour of duty, have to ask him. He is the only guy I know who has experience with non-metal weapons and armor.

Quite a while ago someone official (from Nevrax or Jolt) explained that the "sand" is in fact a woodchip of a kind.

dracolych49 wrote:As a lining, couldn't you thicken the oil and secretion up, or maybe bag it, and thus make it usable as lining?

When little brother gets back from his tour of duty, have to ask him. He is the only guy I know who has experience with non-metal weapons and armor.

I can't see either of those methods working for much.
Yeah. Info on non-metal armor seems to be nonexistent on wikipedia.

boroshi wrote:Quite a while ago someone official (from Nevrax or Jolt) explained that the "sand" is in fact a woodchip of a kind.

My theory is validated!!!


So I've picked out a few items, and I'm starting to have more questions about them...
(excuse the few large, full-size images from Ballistix Mystix)

The Zorai high quality blades:
Does anyone think the golden symbols are amber, or are they metallic? (they could still be very thin amber coating that looks like a metallic finish)
If they're thick amber, are they inlaid or protruding off the surface? because they certainly seem to have a shadow and a highlight to the edges which would seem to suggest they're not thin layers of amber.
I'm also wondering what the blades are made out of that makes them look like metal if there's no metal on the planet. What gives the high quality ones a blue-purple and sometimes orange shine? (seriously, even the blue parts give an orange sheen when you bounce the light off it at a certain angle) (The medium quality blades are entirely gold, which makes me think it's a similar treatment to the amber symbols on the high quality blades. The low quality ones look like some rather rough metal. ... perhaps some grey-ish wood with some laminating sap on top of it. Oh well, I'm really only interested in the high quality blades.) Are there any flat animal carapaces that are blue, in the jungles? Or anything at all that's blue, like some plants. (mob or scenery)

The Matis longsword:
This one confuses me, because there are so many versions.
First of all, there's the one in the logo, with a clearly different hilt, a blade that's connected a little higher up, and with the classic tiny Kitin (Kirosta) trapped in amber on the hilt. Is there a 3D model for this in game? Has the sword ever been described in lore? Is it merely symbolic? The blade looks similar to the medium quality version, except that it's more uniformly green instead of fading to a desaturated... gold?
Here, we have a wallpaper of a Matis. The sword appears to be a combination of a high quality handle and hilt, and something more similar to the medium quality blade. Has this texture ever appeared in game on any event characters? Is it a beta texture, or was it never available in-game?
Are there any other unique (event) textures for the Matis longsword?
I'm also wondering about the leaf vein pattern on the blade. Do you suppose that's along the center of the blade, or on the outer surface? If it's on the surface, does it effect the surface shape by sticking up, or is it just beneath the surface, leaving the surface still smooth?
trivia: did you know the concept artwork calls the the hilt a branch of hazel bulbs?

As for oil and secretion used as an armor padding - perhaps it's a thick, viscous stuff sandwitched by two layers of leather and then quilted like a bed blanket?
The result would be much like those gelatinous bandaids, or those "carpal tunel prevention" gel mousepads. Hugs you body tightly, adhering to your skin and allowing for a rather comfortable fit. Also helps your sweat to go away.

Teeth for stuffing? Well, they might be grounded, stuffing being composed of tooth dust, used the same way as oils and secretions.

We don't know anything about properties of those materials. Homins surely have some reason to use them.