Ryzom

dazedwon wrote:Agreed this should also be modified

The 7 days and gone issue is a biggy for people wanting to put quality gear on the market, but to get rid of it altogether and leave things on forever would be a sure way to kill the game eventually simply due to the enormous data storage requirements.

When I put stuff up for sale I look at the market to see whats there, and there is a HUGE amount of junk, literally junk, Q10 basic armour and weapons, basically just training junk. Now each player is limited to 128 items he can put up for sale, and the items vanish after 6+days, yet even with our limited user base the junk is endless, can you imagine what it would be like with a large user base? The memory consumed would eventually drag the server down!

What is possible I think is a refundable fixed fee for long term listings, and not a small one, so only quality items get long term listed, and to actually reduce the length of time lower quality items remain to only a day or two to keep the junk clear. Personally I NEVER put my crafting junk up for player sale, it gets sold to NPC's immediately, only stuf that I WANT people to buy gets listed, but I am very reluctant to put up stuff like Sup Q70 Amps in case I forget and it vanishes. I keep stuff like that for special player requests.

I would suggest something on the order of 30-50,000 dappers (refundable once item sold) per item for long term listing, that way the Q10+ junk will NEVER get listed (nobody buys it anyway, who comes from Silan only able to wear Q10 armour for instance?)

Personally my favorite would be to have my own shop, at a high cost of course, where I could list just my best stuff, all my Sup Amps and things like that so they don't get mixed up with the general run of the mill choice and ex stuff. Also they could be made uiversal by me, if I want, I just travel to each market and pay a fee to have my shop opened and stuff listed there as well.

zhaxor wrote:The 7 days and gone issue is a biggy for people wanting to put quality gear on the market, but to get rid of it altogether and leave things on forever would be a sure way to kill the game eventually simply due to the enormous data storage requirements.

first, vendor would not be showing items older than 7 days, second, bag has 500 items limit, drop it to 400 and leave last 100 for vendor... and as a added bonus, 128 items per character storage space saved.
.. or drop bag limit to 300 and give vendor 200 items... 72 extra items on vendor !!

blaah wrote:first, vendor would not be showing items older than 7 days, second, bag has 500 items limit, drop it to 400 and leave last 100 for vendor... and as a added bonus, 128 items per character storage space saved.
.. or drop bag limit to 300 and give vendor 200 items... 72 extra items on vendor !!

Dear me, do you understand what you are saying? its not about whether or not the vendoor is displaying the items.

blaah wrote:it's the '7 day and it's gone' mechanics that keeps vendors empty. item should stay on npc indefinitely, but after 7 days (for example) gets hidden................user can then either resell, delete or retrieve the item

Gets hidden, but not deleted from the database! This information stilll has to be stored somewhere, and if you have an endlessly increasing store of data eventually you are going to run out of memory or hard drive space, simple logic. People who aren't interested in selling to other players, but just put stuff up for sale on spec won't bother going back to recover or delete it, if the vendor is full and all they have is more craft junk from lvling they will just sell it straight to the NPC instead of putting it on the market because recovering and/or deleting it is one extra unecessary step. They want to sell quick and nasty, so you get an ever increasing database of hidden stuff.

The market system needs to be made better and easier for people wanting to sell stuff, not more complicated and confusing. And this bit about reducing bag size? NO nononono, never! I need every square inch of storage my bag provides, dropping it by 100, or even (shudder) 200, would be a killer for a dedicated crafter and seller of goods.

You are currently looking at it from a buyers perspective, but you can't ignore the crafter/sellers, make it to difficult, or restrictive and people will simply stop crafting stuff to put up for sale. I quite often pop down to the merchant with 3 or 4 sets of LA, 4 or 5 amps, swords and knives, as well as all the junk stuff I craft to lvl up and put better items up for sale. Reducing bag size by a any substantial amount would double the number of runs I have to make to the vendor just to keep my stock up to date.

zhaxor wrote:People who aren't interested in selling to other players, but just put stuff up for sale on spec won't bother going back to recover or delete it, if the vendor is full and all they have is more craft junk from lvling they will just sell it straight to the NPC instead of putting it on the market because recovering and/or deleting it is one extra unecessary step. They want to sell quick and nasty, so you get an ever increasing database of hidden stuff.

calm down a bit. if the vendor slots are full (128 items currently), then you can only 'sell to npc' and not 'sell to players' and the first choice just gives you dappers and destroys the item (i would think), so no database space is wasted.

And this bit about reducing bag size? NO nononono, never! I need every square inch of storage my bag provides, dropping it by 100, or even (shudder) 200, would be a killer for a dedicated crafter and seller of goods.

i would think that dedicated crafter and seller of goods would welcome increased vendor space

you mixing bulk and slot. dont... nothing good comes out of it.

blaah wrote:calm down a bit. if the vendor slots are full (128 items currently), then you can only 'sell to npc' and not 'sell to players' and the first choice just gives you dappers and destroys the item (i would think), so no database space is wasted.

i would think that dedicated crafter and seller of goods would welcome increased vendor space

you mixing bulk and slot. dont... nothing good comes out of it.

No, what I am saying, for example, is people will join the game and throw junk on the vendors, and that junk will never be removed because, a) they leave the game after two weeks, or b) they don't really sell to players it was just a chance of earning a bit of extra money from junk either crafted or foraged but its to much trouble to recover/delete it so it just stays there. Get a big enough community, and thats what we are after, and it will eventually build up to a large enough number to cause a big server issue due to player trurnover/carelessness. The vendor database MUST have a way of clearing the junk out, it can't be left to build up indefinately.

As to your second point, not neccessarily, what I would much rather have is a better way to organise my goods on the vendors. I get a reasonable turnover of goods, in fact my sale rate is probably as good as my vanish rate, but if I have 3 sets of LA up for sale @ different Q lvls, and a few sets get purchased, I have to check each and every piece of armour to see what items are needed to replace the sold items. in other words, I have one set HP bonus, one set Focus bonus and one set SAP bonus at different Q lvls, so I have to check the properties of each item individually to see what I need to make. I have had 3 sets of LA go in one day and it takes me a good 30 minutes with a piece of paper at the vendor just checking to see what items I need to craft to build my stock up. Having a lot more stock up just makes it more time consuming. So yes it would be nice to have more space, but not under the cuirrent system. I don't fill the 128 slots I have, so more is pointless at the moment.

I would also like more Off-Vendor storage so that I could craft a mass of stock ready to put onto the vendor, so rather than going to have to go and craft to restock because all my storage areas are full of raw materials I could just grab a few sets of LA from the warehouse.

Mixing bulk and slot is an issue, its easy to run out of slots if you're not careful, reducing slots is reducing storage if you craft and sell a wide range of stock and like to keep spare items ready and keep raw material for crafting, you end up with a lot of raw material of small amounts taking up slots.

One of the problems with the current setup is it is designed to be convenient for buyers, not crafters/sellers, it is actually quite time consuming keeping your vendor stock up to date, and a better system for crafters/sellers would encourage more crafters/sellers. it's a complication that buyers don't see or even need to know about, but the difficulties for crafters/sellers inherent in the current system don't become apparant unless you do a lot of it.

zhaxor wrote:Get a big enough community, and thats what we are after, and it will eventually build up to a large enough number to cause a big server issue due to player trurnover/carelessness. The vendor database MUST have a way of clearing the junk out, it can't be left to build up indefinately.

we not big yet and never will be if devs will worry about data storage for 1mil chars with current storage limits.

and if there must be auto delete functionality, then i'm all for it... but 7 days ? thats an insult. 6months should be ok too. (ps, until they fix free vendor storage, 7 days should be even lower hehe)

Mixing bulk and slot is an issue, its easy to run out of slots if you're not careful,

how ? i'm talking about BAG here. yes, it's possible, but it needs real effort to do that. you cant accidently run out of slots even if it's lowered to 300 to make room vendor storage

quite simple

limit items on market to 20 (per account)
remove 7 days
remove regionalised markets


although I tend to disagree with dropping the regionalisation because if I want kara to buy my gear I put it for sale in Avendale, if kami want to make it a pain for kara to buy they put it for sale in Min-Cho. Sure you can walk/swim all the way to them but generally people dont bother.

dakhound wrote:quite simple

limit items on market to 20 (per account)
remove 7 days

The problem with that is its only 2 sets of jewels... 4 (or less) sets of armor...
When I stock, I like to do multiple colors/civs to offer some selection and this would be woefully inadequate...

sehracii wrote:The problem with that is its only 2 sets of jewels... 4 (or less) sets of armor...
When I stock, I like to do multiple colors/civs to offer some selection and this would be woefully inadequate...

people would still see your name on crafted bits and ask "can you do this style"

dakhound wrote:quite simple

limit items on market to 20 (per account)
remove 7 days
remove regionalised markets


although I tend to disagree with dropping the regionalisation because if I want kara to buy my gear I put it for sale in Avendale, if kami want to make it a pain for kara to buy they put it for sale in Min-Cho. Sure you can walk/swim all the way to them but generally people dont bother.

I have sold that many items to players in one day, that's a bit to restrictive for me. I put up full LA armour sets at various Q and type so that people have got a choice depending on their lvl and what bonus they are after, at 20 items thats only 4 sets of LA. People usually buy two full sets of my LA, say one set Focus bonus and one set HP bonus so it goes quick.

I would agree to that limit for casual sellers if the people (like myself) who wanted to play a large part in the market had an alternative to that limit, like paying for the right to put up extra items.

I also prefer to keep regionalisation depending on the way it works, would still like my own shop though!